mrcleancow
New Member
Apologies in advance for the long post, and thank you for helping/reading - I'm just going to try and provide as much information as possible to address any potential questions from leaving out key information.
I'm a secondary hypo patient - I've been on TRT for many years now and can never seem to stay dialed in.
I did self TRT initially because my local doctor wouldnt treat me. I was on 75mg of enanthate twice a week, and 6.25mg aromasin twice a week. I felt really good, full of energy, strong, decent libido, and could usually get an erection. The aromasin was too much however, and I started getting irritability, extremely dry skin, and joint problems. I called up a T clinic.
My first T clinic had me on 100mg 2x per week, 500iu HCG 2x per week, and 1mg Anastrozole 2x per week. My levels were basically all outside of normal range, and I felt like crap, so I changed my doctor.
I used a very high profile well known TRT specialist doctor next. He put me on 40mg of cypionate e3d. He had me taking 25mg of clomid e3d as well. Also, even though my DHEA and cortisol levels were normal, he had me taking pregnenolone and DHEA. I got terrible side effects, my facial skin was constantly very red, oily, broken out in painful cystic acne. I had no morning wood ever, and could only perform sexually once a week - it took that long between orgasms to have libido or be able to achieve another erection.
My numbers on that protocol were:
Total T: 673
Free T: 13.5
Estradiol: 30 (STANDARD TEST, the lab the doctor uses does not have sensitive)
SHBG: 35
DHT: 60
DHEA-s: 403
Prolactin: 14
I had symptoms consistent with low e2, even though the standard test said I was normal. The doctor told me "my numbers are fine, I won't adjust your protocol, 99% of my patient population is on this protocol and they are fine so its just in your head." So I quit using him and did TRT on my own again for a while.
While doing it on my own, I felt pretty damn good on 60mg e3d...for about 3 weeks. I had morning erections every day, felt strong and confident, full of energy. Then I started getting kind of tired, no more morning wood, could still usually perform sexually but not always. The worst part was my skin - very oily, and acne prone, though not nearly as bad as when on DHEA.
My next experience was with a very popular low T clinic. I said I didn't want to use Anastrozole - they put me on a dose of 60mg cyp e3d, 300iu HCG e3d. I felt great for a few weeks, but then started feeling gyno symptoms, being very tired, bloated, gaining love handle/stomach fat (which is rare for me, I'm normally around 12% body fat). I got labs done after 4 weeks on that protocol:
Total T: 880
Free T: 22
Estradiol Sensitive: 31
SHBG: 22.5
DHT: 51
DHEA-s: 376
Prolactin: 11.5
The T clinic, although I am sure were trying to be helpful, after seeing that latest bloodwork, asked me to do daily injections of both T and HCG at very high doses (26mg Test daily, and 125iu HCG daily). This seemed to me like it would drastically raise not just my T numbers but my E2 as well, and I was already having some high E2 sides.
Also why is my DHT so much lower on more hormones?
These numbers look great on paper, but I didn't feel good. The mystery continues. So I experimented a bit. Here is what I noticed:
- On an E3D injection schedule, I generally only got morning wood 2 out of the 3 days after a shot.
- When using HCG (even with e2 in range)
Pros - remarkably clear skin, not oily at all, although slightly pink or red. mood is generally much better.
Cons - no morning wood, difficulty or inability to achieve erection. horrible sleep, waking up multiple times a night. fat gain and water retention.
- When not using HCG
Pros - good morning erections, can usually achieve erection for sex but only if abstaining from masturbation. better sleep, more "alpha" mindset.
Cons - oily skin, acne prone. more prone to getting angry, less sensitive penis.
I am at a total loss for what to do here. I have been on for six years and in my mid/late 30s. Pre TRT test was 237. There is no way I can come off at this point, but I need to find a way to dail in. It seems like I can't get what I want out of TRT with just test, but that I introduce all other types of problems with HCG added in. I need to stay consistent, I can't keep changing protocols chasing symptoms.
Thyroid function is normal, I'm in good shape, pretty low body fat, not depressed or anxious, and eat a very clean diet.
Does HCG do something else, to progesterone, or some other pathway, that could be negatively affecting me even though my normal labs are in range?
Most importantly: where do I go from here and what protocol do I use? I'll go high or low dose, any injection frequency, I just need some guidance.
I'm a secondary hypo patient - I've been on TRT for many years now and can never seem to stay dialed in.
I did self TRT initially because my local doctor wouldnt treat me. I was on 75mg of enanthate twice a week, and 6.25mg aromasin twice a week. I felt really good, full of energy, strong, decent libido, and could usually get an erection. The aromasin was too much however, and I started getting irritability, extremely dry skin, and joint problems. I called up a T clinic.
My first T clinic had me on 100mg 2x per week, 500iu HCG 2x per week, and 1mg Anastrozole 2x per week. My levels were basically all outside of normal range, and I felt like crap, so I changed my doctor.
I used a very high profile well known TRT specialist doctor next. He put me on 40mg of cypionate e3d. He had me taking 25mg of clomid e3d as well. Also, even though my DHEA and cortisol levels were normal, he had me taking pregnenolone and DHEA. I got terrible side effects, my facial skin was constantly very red, oily, broken out in painful cystic acne. I had no morning wood ever, and could only perform sexually once a week - it took that long between orgasms to have libido or be able to achieve another erection.
My numbers on that protocol were:
Total T: 673
Free T: 13.5
Estradiol: 30 (STANDARD TEST, the lab the doctor uses does not have sensitive)
SHBG: 35
DHT: 60
DHEA-s: 403
Prolactin: 14
I had symptoms consistent with low e2, even though the standard test said I was normal. The doctor told me "my numbers are fine, I won't adjust your protocol, 99% of my patient population is on this protocol and they are fine so its just in your head." So I quit using him and did TRT on my own again for a while.
While doing it on my own, I felt pretty damn good on 60mg e3d...for about 3 weeks. I had morning erections every day, felt strong and confident, full of energy. Then I started getting kind of tired, no more morning wood, could still usually perform sexually but not always. The worst part was my skin - very oily, and acne prone, though not nearly as bad as when on DHEA.
My next experience was with a very popular low T clinic. I said I didn't want to use Anastrozole - they put me on a dose of 60mg cyp e3d, 300iu HCG e3d. I felt great for a few weeks, but then started feeling gyno symptoms, being very tired, bloated, gaining love handle/stomach fat (which is rare for me, I'm normally around 12% body fat). I got labs done after 4 weeks on that protocol:
Total T: 880
Free T: 22
Estradiol Sensitive: 31
SHBG: 22.5
DHT: 51
DHEA-s: 376
Prolactin: 11.5
The T clinic, although I am sure were trying to be helpful, after seeing that latest bloodwork, asked me to do daily injections of both T and HCG at very high doses (26mg Test daily, and 125iu HCG daily). This seemed to me like it would drastically raise not just my T numbers but my E2 as well, and I was already having some high E2 sides.
Also why is my DHT so much lower on more hormones?
These numbers look great on paper, but I didn't feel good. The mystery continues. So I experimented a bit. Here is what I noticed:
- On an E3D injection schedule, I generally only got morning wood 2 out of the 3 days after a shot.
- When using HCG (even with e2 in range)
Pros - remarkably clear skin, not oily at all, although slightly pink or red. mood is generally much better.
Cons - no morning wood, difficulty or inability to achieve erection. horrible sleep, waking up multiple times a night. fat gain and water retention.
- When not using HCG
Pros - good morning erections, can usually achieve erection for sex but only if abstaining from masturbation. better sleep, more "alpha" mindset.
Cons - oily skin, acne prone. more prone to getting angry, less sensitive penis.
I am at a total loss for what to do here. I have been on for six years and in my mid/late 30s. Pre TRT test was 237. There is no way I can come off at this point, but I need to find a way to dail in. It seems like I can't get what I want out of TRT with just test, but that I introduce all other types of problems with HCG added in. I need to stay consistent, I can't keep changing protocols chasing symptoms.
Thyroid function is normal, I'm in good shape, pretty low body fat, not depressed or anxious, and eat a very clean diet.
Does HCG do something else, to progesterone, or some other pathway, that could be negatively affecting me even though my normal labs are in range?
Most importantly: where do I go from here and what protocol do I use? I'll go high or low dose, any injection frequency, I just need some guidance.
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