Experiences and Questions: Personal Experiments with Oral Native Testosterone Base & Enclomiphene (TRT+), Testosterone Propionate, HCG and more

[FunkOdyssey]

just realized that the average lifespan of the batteries in these rings is 16 to 20 months—and the batteries are non-replaceable. Considering they cost $450, I’m a bit less inclined to buy now. Plus its a subscription model for the app.

They replace the ring for free when the battery dies. I bought my original Gen 3 ring in 2021 and had it replaced twice now for free, once in 2023 and again just recently.

How helpful do you find the Oura ring?

Absolutely essential.

Sounds interesting:
Injectable T + HCG + scrotal cream (to up DHT a little bit and suppress aromatization).

I'm skeptical of scrotal cream for the purpose of counteracting high estrogen. Yes, you get supraphysiologic DHT, but it comes with a significant helping of additional E2.

Don't worry about this stuff for now. Few men ever need to, and odds are, you won't be one of them.

 

[dirkdigglr]

They replace the ring for free when the battery dies. I bought my original Gen 3 ring in 2021 and had it replaced twice now for free, once in 2023 and again just recently.

Hey, do they replace it indefinitely? Couldn’t really find any clear info about that.

Absolutely essential.

Yeah, I’ll get one. Still figuring out if the RingConn 2 might be better—no subscription required, and someone mentioned the sleep tracking is more accurate (whatever that means exactly).

I'm skeptical of scrotal cream for the purpose of counteracting high estrogen. Yes, you get supraphysiologic DHT, but it comes with a significant helping of additional E2.

Don't worry about this stuff for now. Few men ever need to, and odds are, you won't be one of them.

Ah okay, so this drives E2 up? I remember you mentioned that oral T might lower E2 because of high DHT?

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Got my blood drawn today… but something feels off. My sleep is getting lighter and shorter, and it's harder to fall asleep. I guess that’s probably not ideal for health.

That said, I’ve been feeling really good—no more sluggish mornings.

I checked my blood pressure in the morning and afternoon, and it’s been around 135/85 to 140/90.
(I’m already on 80 mg Telmisartan.)

Without testosterone, my BP used to be around 120/80 to 125/80.

I'm curious, guys, how much does your blood pressure go up personally with the addition of testosterone, HCG, etc.?

Let’s see what the blood results reveal…

My uneducated guess: elevated hematocrit from iron, combined with high T and E2.

 

[FunkOdyssey]

Hey, do they replace it indefinitely? Couldn’t really find any clear info about that.

I imagine there is some point where they stop replacing it but I haven't reached that point yet. Maybe two years from now when this third ring dies, they'll tell me I need to buy something new.

Ah okay, so this drives E2 up? I remember you mentioned that oral T might lower E2 because of high DHT?

Yes, topical testosterone drives E2 up, like most other forms of testosterone. Only oral testosterone seems to have the E2 reducing effect. There is aromatase in the skin and subcutaneous fat beneath the skin which will produce some E2 from topical testosterone.

Got my blood drawn today… but something feels off. My sleep is getting lighter and shorter, and it's harder to fall asleep. I guess that’s probably not ideal for health.

Normal for someone new to high levels of T and E2. You can wait for adaptation or reduce dose.

I checked my blood pressure in the morning and afternoon, and it’s been around 135/85 to 140/90.
(I’m already on 80 mg Telmisartan.)

Without testosterone, my BP used to be around 120/80 to 125/80.

Let’s see what the blood results reveal…

My uneducated guess: elevated hematocrit from iron, combined with high T and E2.

Normal increase in BP for someone new to high T and E2 due to combined water retention and increased sympathetic nervous system activity. These effects are [mostly] transient and you can wait for adaptation or reduce dose.

If you do happen to run peak labs, you're going to see some shocking numbers that may bias you towards a dose reduction. 20 mg of test prop daily with hCG on top is no joke. On 19 mg of test prop without hCG, I had 1800+ ng/dL total T, 49 ng/dL free T, and 56 pg/mL E2 at peak.

 

[dirkdigglr]

Normal for someone new to high levels of T and E2. You can wait for adaptation or reduce dose.

Normal increase in BP for someone new to high T and E2 due to combined water retention and increased sympathetic nervous system activity. These effects are [mostly] transient and you can wait for adaptation or reduce dose.

That is very good to know!

If you do happen to run peak labs, you're going to see some shocking numbers that may bias you towards a dose reduction. 20 mg of test prop daily with hCG on top is no joke. On 19 mg of test prop without hCG, I had 1800+ ng/dL total T, 49 ng/dL free T, and 56 pg/mL E2 at peak.

Shocking numbers?

Any idea how much 150 IU hCG could actually put on top?

Are there health risks involved with these peaks in my 20 mg + 150 IU daily combo? The Cortex Labs guy starts some clients at 20 mg prop (without hCG) and ramps up to 50–60 mg per day in some cases. I mean… what is even going on then

 

[FunkOdyssey]

Any idea how much 150 IU hCG could actually put on top?

Varies widely, but I would say the possible ranges are something like this:

Total T: 75 - 200 ng/dL
Free T: 2 - 4 ng/dL
E2: 10 - 25 pg/mL

 

[FunkOdyssey]

Are there health risks involved with these peaks in my 20 mg + 150 IU daily combo? The Cortex Labs guy starts some clients at 20 mg prop (without hCG) and ramps up to 50–60 mg per day in some cases. I mean… what is even going on then

I almost said something in my previous post about Cortex normalizing ridiculous doses of prop. So I'll say it here: the doses of prop he suggests are insane. The deep troughs on prop let you "get away with" crazy high levels during the day, without the degree of side effects that would normally accompany them.

Does your endothelium get away with it though? How many people are running high doses of prop and serial carotid IMTs, calcium scans, coronary CTAs to detect rapid plaque accumulation? If the answer is higher than zero I would be surprised.

To answer your question more directly, potentially there could be health risks involved. Cardiovascular risk would be my primary concern. It would behoove you to monitor this more carefully than the average person.