Estrogen Blocker or not when taking TRT/HCG

[TucsonJJ]

I would bet your symptoms are from estrogen. Boron won’t do anything. DHEA is a must but it will not raise your testosterone level.

If it were me, I’d pop .25 mg of the Arimidex and see how I’d feel and get E2 checked at the Endo.

thanks, I may well do that... I am also wondering of my daily small bowl of ganja (for 15+ years) is making everything worse... I red that it does effect hormones... not many studies, due to the insanity of weed still being Class 1... I didn't smoke last night and feel better... but my last pin of T was Friday... so that could be it too... hard to figure it all out...

 

[TucsonJJ]

I was thinking it might be valuable if I stop TRT...

Do you take Boron?

 

[TucsonJJ]

I would bet your symptoms are from estrogen. Boron won’t do anything. DHEA is a must but it will not raise your testosterone level.

If it were me, I’d pop .25 mg of the Arimidex and see how I’d feel and get E2 checked at the Endo.

I'm pretty sure Arimidex blocks the production of NEW estrogen... but will not remove existing... which will not help me... as I am off TRT until I see the EndoDoc... bummer! thx!

 

[TucsonJJ]

I would bet your symptoms are from estrogen. Boron won’t do anything. DHEA is a must but it will not raise your testosterone level.

If it were me, I’d pop .25 mg of the Arimidex and see how I’d feel and get E2 checked at the Endo.

Hey, Jim, was still feeling crappy, so I pinned 20mg of Test-Cyp and took a .125 of Anastrozole... felt better within 15 minutes (empty stomach)... Must have been the estrogen... and I red that guys should never stop TRT cold turkey, maybe even after only 4 weeks... nd I think for ME... 100mg/week, no AI, was too high to start... I sure appreciate your suggestion... it really helped!

 

[Blackhawk]

Hey, Jim, was still feeling crappy, so I pinned 20mg of Test-Cyp and took a .125 of Anastrozole... felt better within 15 minutes (empty stomach)... Must have been the estrogen... and I red that guys should never stop TRT cold turkey, maybe even after only 4 weeks... nd I think for ME... 100mg/week, no AI, was too high to start... I sure appreciate your suggestion... it really helped!

Be careful. If you feel that amount of effect that quickly, you are almost certainly taking too much. That single dose after full absorption may be enough to drop you E2 below the desired amount. Subsequent doses may crash your E2 level if you are repeat dosing. Steady state of the drug takes around 7 days. This means your initial result in 15 minutes is a tiny fraction of what ongoing dosing would do. Even your first dose would take the better part of 2 hours to peak. You do not want higher levels of anastrzole in your system than what keeps you E2 in the desired range.

The following is based on 1mg/day on label dosing, but these pharmokenetics also apply to lower amounts.

From:Arimidex Monograph for Professionals - Drugs.com

Arimidex Pharmacokinetics

Absorption

Bioavailability

Rapidly and well absorbed after oral administration, with peak plasma concentrations usually attained within 2 hours under fasting conditions.[SUP]1[/SUP]
Steady-state plasma concentrations achieved in about 7 days.[SUP]1[/SUP]
Onset

Serum estradiol concentrations reduced by approximately 70% within 24 hours of a 1-mg dose[SUP]1[/SUP] and by approximately 80% after 14 days of daily dosing.[SUP]1[/SUP]
Duration

Suppression of serum estradiol concentrations maintained for up to 6 days after discontinuance of daily anastrozole administration.[SUP]1[/SUP]
Food

Food reduces rate but does not affect extent of absorption.[SUP]1[/SUP]

 

[TucsonJJ]

thanks, Blackhawk... I agree... I was initially prescribed 1mg/week anastrozole and it wiped me out... but in this instance, second attempt at TRT, I was on 100mg/wk test/cyp for 4 weeks with no AI... I think I might have built up e2 levels... or had a testosterone come-down after a week... so I did a small amount of both... only .125 of anastrozole... whichever... they really helped... actually might have been an hour, but it seemed fast... I agree, AIs require caution, big time. I will not take anymore anastrozole until I see my new EndoDoc next week... I am hoping he can straighten it all out...

 

[JimGainz]

Hey, Jim, was still feeling crappy, so I pinned 20mg of Test-Cyp and took a .125 of Anastrozole... felt better within 15 minutes (empty stomach)... Must have been the estrogen... and I red that guys should never stop TRT cold turkey, maybe even after only 4 weeks... nd I think for ME... 100mg/week, no AI, was too high to start... I sure appreciate your suggestion... it really helped!

That’s great news! Very glad to hear it. That’s why we are here – to share information You got to go by a combination of lab work and how you feel.

 

[JimGainz]

thanks, Blackhawk... I agree... I was initially prescribed 1mg/week anastrozole and it wiped me out... but in this instance, second attempt at TRT, I was on 100mg/wk test/cyp for 4 weeks with no AI... I think I might have built up e2 levels... or had a testosterone come-down after a week... so I did a small amount of both... only .125 of anastrozole... whichever... they really helped... actually might have been an hour, but it seemed fast... I agree, AIs require caution, big time. I will not take anymore anastrozole until I see my new EndoDoc next week... I am hoping he can straighten it all out...

Dialing in estrogen is probably one of the hardest things on TRT. Remember, it’s not the Arimidex itself that is the problem, it’s the side effects from when it crashes your estrogen. I am back on .125 mg per week, up from zero and feel great. Some people have a very fast reaction to this drug and only need very little. Some people don’t need any at all and do fine even with estradiol levels over 100 If you are feeling better, that is a very good sign. And whatever you do, do not let your Endo talk you in to going back to some ridiculous dose, because he’s used to prescribIng guys like 1 mg a week or something. Many of the Endo‘s tend to be the worst in terms of their TRT protocol because they are very old-school and follow stringent national guidelines based on published studies and not current trends.

 

[TucsonJJ]

Good advice, thx. If my new Endo turns out to be a jerk like so many Docs before him... I'll stick with my Uro-PA... not an MD, but listens to me regarding side effects... it happens that the new Endo is a friend of my Uro-PA... so they can work together... maybe!
I am REALLY sensitive to any chemical, so 100mg test/cyp/week might have been too high to start... might be a big-time aromatizer too... not sure... we'll see on new blood-work... I can't help thinking my e2 spiked over the 4 weeks, as I felt so much better with a small does of anastrozole...
I have a fear of overdoing AI's read too much bad stuff about them... I think your .125/week might work for me too... we'll see...

 

[Westin]

I’m on 60mg TC twice a week (120mg weekly) and 375HCG 3 times a week. I didn’t need the AI on TC only, but when I added the HCG I did. He prescribed 1mg AI once a week. I cut it into quarters and take.25 once a week. Keeps me at the high end of normal, more importantly that the Range, I feel perfect at that level.

 

[TucsonJJ]

Sounds like a good mix... are you feeling GREAT? I think maybe I was just going through the startup blues... still am... feeling very foggy, fatigues and sort of weak... several have told me similar stories... and... I was not prescribed any AI this time... not sure if I needed it or not, but taking a .125 anastrozole sure made me feel better fast... I am interested in HCG too... we'' see if the new EndoDoc approves... tomorrow... blood work will be done too, hopefully VERY comprehensive... if not, I'll keep searching... I have two TRT clinics here locally that are supposed to be very good... Defy is always an option, especially if I can hook up with Dr. Saya... I heard he is not taking anymore patients at this time...

 

[Westin]

I feel really good. I’ve tried to chase Great by Changing protocols a bunch of time and waiting the eight weeks. None are better than what I’m on for me. So, really good is what I’ll call it, great maybe not.

 

[UCFguy01]

I've been on testosterone and HCG injections for a few years now. I've used AI's and not used AI's. For me, I felt OK either way but I think adding a little AI (1/4 of a 25mg exemestane 2x week) to my protocol makes me feel the overall best. And by feeling my best I mean my sense of well being, sleep, energy,mood, and libido are all optimized.

 

[TucsonJJ]

I see that exemestane is the AI made you feel the best... I was initially prescribed 1mg Anastrozole once a week and it made me feel really lousy... I heard Aromasin is better... had not heard of exemestane... had you tried Aromasin before changing to the Exe?
I don't have an e2 issue yet, but only in 5th week of re-start after dumping the quacks and finding a good EndoDoc...

 

[UCFguy01]

I see that exemestane is the AI made you feel the best... I was initially prescribed 1mg Anastrozole once a week and it made me feel really lousy... I heard Aromasin is better... had not heard of exemestane... had you tried Aromasin before changing to the Exe?
I don't have an e2 issue yet, but only in 5th week of re-start after dumping the quacks and finding a good EndoDoc...

I was given anastrozole first and it made me feel like death. Terrible!! I would be irritable and zero libido....I mean zero.

So then my doc said to try exemestane since it's generic Aromasin and it's cheap($15 for 30 weeks worth). I used it and never really felt anything negative at all.

 

[TucsonJJ]

Xlnt, thanks! One of the Docs I dumped, an Endocrinologist (and a total jerk), told me that Anastrozole was no longer "standard of care"... jeeze... It was prescribed by another Doc I dumped, a Urologist... lots of incompetent Docs out there!
I'll ask my new EndoDoc for a prescription... unless a guy is very lucky, I would think he would need an AI at some point... and I agree.. small doses seem best...

 

[TucsonJJ]

Be careful. If you feel that amount of effect that quickly, you are almost certainly taking too much. That single dose after full absorption may be enough to drop you E2 below the desired amount. Subsequent doses may crash your E2 level if you are repeat dosing. Steady state of the drug takes around 7 days. This means your initial result in 15 minutes is a tiny fraction of what ongoing dosing would do. Even your first dose would take the better part of 2 hours to peak. You do not want higher levels of anastrzole in your system than what keeps you E2 in the desired range.

The following is based on 1mg/day on label dosing, but these pharmokenetics also apply to lower amounts.

From:Arimidex Monograph for Professionals - Drugs.com

Arimidex Pharmacokinetics

Absorption

Bioavailability

Rapidly and well absorbed after oral administration, with peak plasma concentrations usually attained within 2 hours under fasting conditions.[SUP]1[/SUP]
Steady-state plasma concentrations achieved in about 7 days.[SUP]1[/SUP]
Onset

Serum estradiol concentrations reduced by approximately 70% within 24 hours of a 1-mg dose[SUP]1[/SUP] and by approximately 80% after 14 days of daily dosing.[SUP]1[/SUP]
Duration

Suppression of serum estradiol concentrations maintained for up to 6 days after discontinuance of daily anastrozole administration.[SUP]1[/SUP]
Food

Food reduces rate but does not affect extent of absorption.[SUP]1[/SUP]

Finishing week 5, feeling MUCH better... not sure if it is all the TRT... or my stopping the small amount of weed nightly, stopping the small glass of red wine for lunch, and eating pretty much only steamed/sauteed veggies and Ezekiel bread or rice... some fruit... for lunch... a protein drink for dinner...
What do you think... I miss the red wine... and sort of miss the SMALL nightly toke too... it really helped me sleep better... thanks!!