Ejaculate changes on Clomid - High E2?

[abraxus]

Hey guys,

Long time lurker, first time poster. I'm a 27 year old, relatively active guy. Noticed low T symptoms, doctor decided to try fixing it (thankfully, given I didn't have the crazy low levels of some other guys seeking treatment). I recently started Clomid and switched my care to Defy Medical, got on Anastrozole and have been working to get the dosage dialed in correctly over time because my E2 levels have been all over the place despite a VERY robust response in testosterone. The only problem I'm running into that I can't find much confirmation on is that I've noticed a significant decline in ejaculate volume (think going from soaking tissues to literally a quarter of a teaspoon) and an almost jello-like consistency. This has been a problem since the first week or two on Clomid.

I haven't been able to find much on the relationship between high estradiol levels and these effects in particular, and it doesn't appear to be a known side effect of clomid (if anything, apparently some men take it to produce more, not less) or anastrozole (though the evidence of this on men is sparse to begin with). Everything I come up with talks about sperm, opposed to semen, quality or the decreased production you'd expect on test cyp without HcG. So, my question is: has anyone else encountered these side effects on Clomid? I meant to ask during my last appointment but totally forgot amid other adjustment concerns. Regimen and blood info below.

Current regimen changed as of yesterday (Previous dosage for the past several weeks):
Clomid 25mg EOD (same)
Anastrozole .125mg ED (.125mg EOD)
Vitamin D3 5000IU ED
DHEA 50mg ED
Fish oil 4g ED
Iodine 150mcg ED
Selenium 200mcg ED
Zinc 25mg ED
Magnesium 500mg ED

Initial bloods before starting Clomid:
Total Test - 453 ng/dL (264 - 916)
Free Test - 12.32 ng/dL (5 - 21)
DHT - 27 ng/dL (30 - 85) [Believed to be source of problems I had at the time]
Estradiol - 24.6 pg/mL (8 - 35)
LH - 5.4 mIU/mL (1.7 - 8.6)
FSH - 1.9 mIU/mL (1.5 - 12.4)
PSA - 0.5 ng/mL (0 - 4)
SHBG - 29.6 nmol/L (16.5 - 55.9)
IGF-1 - 188 ng/mL (98 - 282)
Zinc - 98 ug/dL (56 - 134)
Magnesium - 1.84 mg/dL (1.6 - 2.3)
DHEA-s - 210.5 ug/dL (138.5 - 475.2)
TSH - 3.15 uIU/mL (0.45 - 4.5)
Free T4 - 0.88 ng/dL (0.82 - 1.77)
Free T3 - 3.1 pg/mL (2 - 4.4)
Cholesterol - 187 mg-dL (100 - 199)
HDL - 40 mg/dL (>39)
LDL - 124 mg/dL (0 - 99)

First bloods after starting Clomid (~3 weeks):
Total Test - 788 ng/dL (264 - 916)
Free Test - 17.72 ng/dL (5 - 21)
DHT - 61 ng/dL (30 - 85) [Believed to be source of problems I had at the time]
Estradiol - 53.3 pg/mL (8 - 35)
LH - 13.3 mIU/mL (1.7 - 8.6)
FSH - 8.1 mIU/mL (1.5 - 12.4)
PSA - 0.75 ng/mL (0 - 4)
SHBG - 24.5 nmol/L (16.5 - 55.9)
IGF-1 - Didn't measure
Zinc - 106 ug/dL (56 - 134)
Magnesium - 2.3 mg/dL (1.6 - 2.3)
DHEA-s - 277 ug/dL (138.5 - 475.2)
TSH - 3.7 uIU/mL (0.45 - 4.5)
Free T4 - Not measured ng/dL (0.82 - 1.77)
Free T3 - Not measured pg/mL (2 - 4.4)
Cholesterol - Not measured mg-dL (100 - 199)
HDL - Not measured mg/dL (>39)
LDL - Not measured mg/dL (0 - 99)

Bloods after starting AI (~2 weeks) before starting Clomid (no dose change in Clomid):
Total Test - 969 ng/dL (264 - 916)
Free Test - 30.5 ng/dL (5 - 21)
DHT - 61 ng/dL (30 - 85) [Believed to be source of problems I had at the time]
Estradiol - 53.7 pg/mL (8 - 35) [Didn't move, but could be the DHEA supplement]
LH - 20.7 mIU/mL (1.7 - 8.6)
FSH - 8.1 mIU/mL (1.5 - 12.4)
PSA - 1.1 ng/mL (0 - 4)
SHBG - 24.5 nmol/L (16.5 - 55.9)
IGF-1 - 157 ng/mL (98 - 282)
Zinc - 106 ug/dL (56 - 134)
Magnesium - 2.3 mg/dL (1.6 - 2.3)
DHEA-s - 277 ug/dL (138.5 - 475.2)
TSH - 4.3 uIU/mL (0.45 - 4.5)
Free T4 - 1.16 ng/dL (0.82 - 1.77)
Free T3 - 3.0 pg/mL (2 - 4.4)
Cholesterol - 153 mg-dL (100 - 199)
HDL - 32 mg/dL (>39)
LDL - 97 mg/dL (0 - 99)

Any thoughts you guys have would be greatly appreciated. Also, anything that jumps out from the bloods that I might be able to fix with diet/exercise/supplements, I'm definitely open to. Thanks!

 

[Vince]

I never use Clomid but I thought it was supposed to increase your semen.

Clomid works by blocking estrogen receptors in the brain, which can increase the production of testosterone and sperm for men. ... When estrogen levels are low, it turns on and starts producing luteinizing hormone (LH) and follicle stimulating hormone (FSH). As estrogen levels increase, the pituitary gland shuts down.Jan 30, 2018
Can Clomid treat male infertility | Treating low sperm count | Men's ...

 

[abraxus]

I thought so too, which is why I’m here haha. More precisely, I know it affects *sperm* and there’s anecdotal evidence of increases in volume and thinner consistency. The exact opposite of what I’ve experienced...

I haven’t changed anything else, no changes in stress, hydration, supplements, frequency of ejaculation, or diet. I can’t imagine what would be causing it if not the high E2 symptoms.

 

[bobo12345]

I'm glad you posted this. I'm not Clomid but I have used it before. I'm on a "standard" protocol of T + HCG but the exact same issue has been affecting me recently. It's happened before but it's been somewhat rare. I don't think it's an issue with Clomid specifically. The only thing I've found recently that makes any sense is Sperm Agglutination which is usually caused by an infection or antibodies. They say Zinc and Vit C can help but here's the odd thing...I've been taking more Vit C and Zinc lately and that's when it appeared. I hope others can chime in to provide better info.

I have low E2 and moderate T levels so maybe it could be something to do with E2 on either extreme?

 

[abraxus]

Interesting that you're noticing this on the opposite end of the E2 spectrum. I don't have a clear sense of the mechanism by which E2 would impact semen viscosity or volume, so I can't say whether it would be a thing one direction or the other.

As an update, I'm now about a week on the new dose of anastrozole and the volume has increased back to maybe 60% of my previous volume and the viscosity has thinned out a bit for the first shot of the day, but continues to be minimal and gelatinous for the second and subsequent ones. I'll be sitting for some more blood work next week to test my E2 levels under the new regimen and will let you know whether things continue to go the right direction.

Oh and the fact that you're noticing this on HCG is good because it answers a second order concern that I had regarding my LH/FSH levels (whether super elevated levels would possibly cause some weirdness). But given that HCG acts like LH, despite your LH levels dropping due to the T, that gives me some sense that it might not be the cause.

 

[fibispiral112]

Any update? I was started on 12.5mg of clomid daily and started noticing changes after the first few days. Thinking the decrease in volume had something to do with high E2, I began 0.125 mg of anastrozole twice weekly. Things haven't gotten any better.

 

[Bmac]

Seems like an issue between clomids two isomers enclomiphene and Zuclomifene

 

[BigBamBoo]

Welcome to the fun of messing with your hormones.

I never used clomid, but TRT takes my normal, porn star level loads down to a dribble.
This decreases my sexual enjoyment by a large amount.

Have no helpful insight, but know that this is a common thing when introducing substances that alter your hormones.

 

[TLR]

Same thing happened to me......and sometimes its sticky as a spider web.....feel like spider man only it doesn't shoot near as far!

 

[steakandwhiskey]

Am only about a week into clomid at 25mg/day and am noticing the exact same thing. The size of my loads has gone down to about 30% of normal and is a very weird glue-like consistency.

 

[txmx]

You can try sunflower lecithin and possibly zinc as well to see if it increases load volume. Also make sure you stay well hydrated.

 

[Vince Carter]

Am only about a week into clomid at 25mg/day and am noticing the exact same thing. The size of my loads has gone down to about 30% of normal and is a very weird glue-like consistency.

side note here that 25mg/D is too much for most guys; Estrogen. And an AI is less effective in the testicular environment for Aromatase. 12.5mg/D or even EOD is less prone to sides.

 

[trt reznor]

Even 25mg EOD was too much for me. Remember clomid removes the mechanism that shuts off FSH and LH when it senses E2 at an appropriate level. So it has the potential for drastically raising your E2. Estrogen, the female hormone. Too much of it and you grow tits, your balls and penis shrink, etc. Libido goes down, your ejaculate is decreased, anxiety goes up. I didn’t last 3 weeks on it.

 

[Vince Carter]

Clomid has also been suspect to raising SHBG which eats up the Free T you (might have) gained.

 

[steakandwhiskey]

Even 25mg EOD was too much for me. Remember clomid removes the mechanism that shuts off FSH and LH when it senses E2 at an appropriate level. So it has the potential for drastically raising your E2. Estrogen, the female hormone. Too much of it and you grow tits, your balls and penis shrink, etc. Libido goes down, your ejaculate is decreased, anxiety goes up. I didn’t last 3 weeks on it.

Given the current symptoms, I'm not gonna make it past a week and a half. Literally have never in my life felt as dazed and shitty as I do right now on clomid at only 25mg/day. Called my doc and will discuss next steps with him.

May try lowering to 25mg EOD or even 12.5mg EOD per Vince's suggestion.