Daily injections-what is the average dose of people that inject daily?

[GreenMachineX]

What ester are you using? Anything else (hCG, DHEA, etc)?

Nothing else except vitamins at the moment. I haven't used hcg in years and have no access to it. My DHEA levels are quite low, but I didn't really feel better when I got it in range either. The couple times I've tried pregnenolone my BP went way too high (160/90). I'm wondering if I'll have better results with a low dose EOD protocol. Even the last time I tried EOD I used 20-25mg EOD, and felt revved up most of the time (not as bad as now though I don't think).

This will sound ridiculous, but I might go with 4mg EOD for a few weeks to see how that feels. After 8 years on TRT, natural recovery is unlikely.

 

[Fortunate]

Nothing else except vitamins at the moment. I haven't used hcg in years and have no access to it. My DHEA levels are quite low, but I didn't really feel better when I got it in range either. The couple times I've tried pregnenolone my BP went way too high (160/90). I'm wondering if I'll have better results with a low dose EOD protocol. Even the last time I tried EOD I used 20-25mg EOD, and felt revved up most of the time (not as bad as now though I don't think).

This will sound ridiculous, but I might go with 4mg EOD for a few weeks to see how that feels. After 8 years on TRT, natural recovery is unlikely.

I agree on DHEA and pregnenolone. I feel worse on them.

I am like you: I am really sensitive to most TRT. Yet, when untreated, I feel pretty fatigued and washed out. I suppose if you feel better with less (or none at all), you should cut back or stop. Have you ever tried to stop? If so, are the symptoms tolerable?

Have you ever tried Natesto? You may tolerate it better than injections.

 

[MIP1950]

I'll add to the discussion. I have been a TRT struggler (well documented around here). The only thing I have typically tolerated is Natesto with a low dose of hCG. But, I also feel under-treated, so I explore other options. But, I have had trouble with various injection protocols.

I was a patient of Dr. Crisler's (RIP) and I remember using the term "brain fog" to describe how I felt after T Cyp injections. I felt like I was crazy. Fast forward several years and look around here and you will find tons of similar experiences.

In any case, for the past few months, I have been toying with low dose daily injections, and finally found an injection protocol that does not make me feel terrible (no headache, brain fog, etc). I have varied between 10-15mg total of either enanthate or a combo of enanthate with nandrolone (to lower chances of downstream metabolites causing side effects). I am still playing with it to find the right total dose and right ratio.

So, on one hand, this is progress. I finally found a way to inject without feeling terrible. Problem is, I am not sure I feel great either.

I very briefly tried to mirror @Cataceous's enanthate/propionate blend and bailed after a few days. That said, now that I am currently tolerating low dose injections, I have thought about trying it again. The primary motivation for this is to have some daily variation. I also notice that I feel better towards the mid day and evening compared with the morning on this protocol. I wonder if introducing propionate would potentially address this, as onset of action may be earlier in the day? I have also been kicking around cream along with low dose daily injection. Loved cream for about a month. Pretty bad after the first month (like many others). But, some have had good luck on the combo.

Good discussion here.

Sounds like my experiences. I'm trying Empower test prop, again; 15 mg. There was a guy on here,sebastianj, I think, a few years ago, who found 15 mg of prop was his optimal dose, after trying various protocols with various esters.

What I've been finding, for the past six weeks or so, is that my libido and semi-functional erection peaks at around 10 p.m., though I was injecting in the morning (This was before test P; I was using test E). Basically, 15-16 hours after injection. When I first started injections, 9 years ago, I'd have solid erectile function 6 to 7 hours after injection. I factor in that with long term untreatable bipolar illness, circadian clocks have become more desynchronized, so I hypothesize that cortisol, neurotransmitters and neuropeptides are out of phase. All that said, it's a positive to feel a rise in libido and some degree of erectile function. Just would like to have it when my wife is awake, since she goes to bed quite early.

 

[GreenMachineX]

I agree on DHEA and pregnenolone. I feel worse on them.

I am like you: I am really sensitive to most TRT. Yet, when untreated, I feel pretty fatigued and washed out. I suppose if you feel better with less (or none at all), you should cut back or stop. Have you ever tried to stop? If so, are the symptoms tolerable?

Have you ever tried Natesto? You may tolerate it better than injections.

The longest I went without TRT in 8 years was 2 weeks about a month ago. My libido, focus and decision making was pretty bad, but otherwise I think my energy was good enough. I really don't know what to do anymore lol.

I haven't tried Natesto and unsure I want to. If I respond so strongly to low dose test cyp, I just think I'll respond strongly to something that acts so quickly too. What's your current protocol?

 

[Fortunate]

Sounds like my experiences. I'm trying Empower test prop, again; 15 mg. There was a guy on here,sebastianj, I think, a few years ago, who found 15 mg of prop was his optimal dose, after trying various protocols with various esters.

What I've been finding, for the past six weeks or so, is that my libido and semi-functional erection peaks at around 10 p.m., though I was injecting in the morning (This was before test P; I was using test E). Basically, 15-16 hours after injection. When I first started injections, 9 years ago, I'd have solid erectile function 6 to 7 hours after injection. I factor in that with long term untreatable bipolar illness, circadian clocks have become more desynchronized, so I hypothesize that cortisol, neurotransmitters and neuropeptides are out of phase. All that said, it's a positive to feel a rise in libido and some degree of erectile function. Just would like to have it when my wife is awake, since she goes to bed quite early.

Just prop? What dose?

 

[MIP1950]

Just prop? What dose?

Just prop. 15 mg/daily. Only started back on it. As I wrote, there was a guy on here a few years ago who said after trying various esters and dosing protocols, it was test prop that to which he had a positive response at 15 mg, IM, daily. Of course that doesn't mean that I'll get a similar good response to prop but my urologist agreed it was worth a try.

From sebastian_r Februray 13, 2019/Thread:Testosterone propionate for TRT

"Tested them all during the last 4-5 years."
- Suspension
- Propionate
- Phenylpropionate
- Enanthate
- Cypionate
- Undecanoate
- Sustanon

 

[Fortunate]

The longest I went without TRT in 8 years was 2 weeks about a month ago. My libido, focus and decision making was pretty bad, but otherwise I think my energy was good enough. I really don't know what to do anymore lol.

I haven't tried Natesto and unsure I want to. If I respond so strongly to low dose test cyp, I just think I'll respond strongly to something that acts so quickly too. What's your current protocol?

Currently playing with low dose daily enanthate or an enanthate-propionate blend. My fall back is always Natesto.

I really doubt you’d feel overstimulated from it. If anything, I think my consensus feeling is that while on Natesto, I generally feel slightly undertreated. However, in fairness, I probably have drawn these conclusions around a time when I was using Natesto after doing some kind of injection protocol. In that situation, I would be relatively shut down. I think Natesto really shines when you have some and endogenous production and you and you use Natesto on top of that.

For you, the upside is that if you do feel overstimulated, it wears off extremely quickly, we’re not talking days, we’re talking minutes to hours. Little downside and legitimate upside. I’d give it some thought.

 

[Fortunate]

Just prop. 15 mg/daily. Only started back on it. As I wrote, there was a guy on here a few years ago who said after trying various esters and dosing protocols, it was test prop that to which he had a positive response at 15 mg, IM, daily. Of course that doesn't mean that I'll get a similar good response to prop but my urologist agreed it was worth a try.

From sebastian_r Februray 13, 2019/Thread:Testosterone propionate for TRT

"Tested them all during the last 4-5 years."
- Suspension
- Propionate
- Phenylpropionate
- Enanthate
- Cypionate
- Undecanoate
- Sustanon

Interesting. I have some propionate from trying it out last year and it didn’t go well. Decided to give it another try and was mixing it with an enanthate. Went well for a few days, but started getting post injection pain and nodules. I’ve never had that issue before. Not sure if there’s something wrong with my vial or if it’s expired, so I ordered a new vial.

When it comes, may consider trying it again.

 

[MIP1950]

Interesting. I have some propionate from trying it out last year and it didn’t go well. Decided to give it another try and was mixing it with an enanthate. Went well for a few days, but started getting post injection pain and nodules. I’ve never had that issue before. Not sure if there’s something wrong with my vial or if it’s expired, so I ordered a new vial.

When it comes, may consider trying it again.

I'm still not sure about the Empower formula of grapeseed oil and benzyl alcohol. Didn't feel right when I first tried it a few months ago, presuming it was either the oil or preservative. Extremely chemically sensitive, which is an effing hassle. Test Cyp is out of the question. Cottonseed oil. Even topical had to be compounded in a preservative free base. Either homebrew my own topical or go back to pellets, but if I did the latter, I'd ask my urologist to forego insurance, pay cash and just load me up with 20 pellets.

 

[Fortunate]

I'm still not sure about the Empower formula of grapeseed oil and benzyl alcohol. Didn't feel right when I first tried it a few months ago, presuming it was either the oil or preservative. Extremely chemically sensitive, which is an effing hassle. Test Cyp is out of the question. Cottonseed oil. Even topical had to be compounded in a preservative free base. Either homebrew my own topical or go back to pellets, but if I did the latter, I'd ask my urologist to forego insurance, pay cash and just load me up with 20

Have you considered Xyosted? Single use pen without preservatives. But, in sesame oil and expensive.

 

[GreenMachineX]

Currently playing with low dose daily enanthate or an enanthate-propionate blend. My fall back is always Natesto.

I really doubt you’d feel overstimulated from it. If anything, I think my consensus feeling is that while on Natesto, I generally feel slightly undertreated. However, in fairness, I probably have drawn these conclusions around a time when I was using Natesto after doing some kind of injection protocol. In that situation, I would be relatively shut down. I think Natesto really shines when you have some and endogenous production and you and you use Natesto on top of that.

For you, the upside is that if you do feel overstimulated, it wears off extremely quickly, we’re not talking days, we’re talking minutes to hours. Little downside and legitimate upside. I’d give it some thought.

Is it easy to control dose? For example, if the typical starting dose is 50mg per day (no idea if that's right but just for this example), would I be able to start with 5mg or something else ridiculously low?

 

[Fortunate]

Is it easy to control dose? For example, if the typical starting dose is 50mg per day (no idea if that's right but just for this example), would I be able to start with 5mg or something else ridiculously low?

Kind of. It’s one squirt per nostril, three times a day. You could just do one nostril. You could do it once or twice a day.

 

[GreenMachineX]

Kind of. It’s one squirt per nostril, three times a day. You could just do one nostril. You could do it once or twice a day.

That sounds iffy too. I might just be done. I don't know

 

[Fortunate]

That sounds iffy too. I might just be done. I don't know

I’ve done it on and off for years. Very easy and quick.

 

[GreenMachineX]

I’ve done it on and off for years. Very easy and quick.

You've done Natesto on and off for years?

 

[Fortunate]

Yes. I started this thread.

 

[GreenMachineX]

Yes. I started this thread.

Lol guess I'll go back to the beginning.

 

[MIP1950]

Have you considered Xyosted? Single use pen without preservatives. But, in sesame oil and expensive.

The expense would be problematic. I'll stay with West-Ward Test E.

 

[Fortunate]

For guys that do very small daily doses, do you consider the amount wasted in the needle? I’m currently taking a break and have been on Natesto for a little over a week. Not sure if I’m gonna stick with it or go back to a smaller, daily dose than I was on before. If I were to do 6 to 8 mg, the amount of actual testosterone will be less than that plus wastage.

I know there is some information on wastage and insulin needles around here somewhere. I’ll go ahead and look it up, but just wondering if any of you guys microdosing take this into consideration when calculating how much you are actually injecting?

 

[Fortunate]

Rethinking this, and realizing, I think it’s a dumb question. The amount that sits in the needle that never gets injected gets drawn in first and sits in last. The amount in the syringe that is no longer in the syringe when done injecting is the amount injected. Therefore, while some is wasted, the amount in the syringe is the amount injected. Sorry to waste some of your brain cells.

That said, would still love others to share their low-dose daily injection protocol. It seems like I may be among the few around here that can’t tolerate even 10 mg a day. If I go back on injections, probably would be 6 to 8 mg per day to see how that works.