To Daily Injectors of testosterone and HCG, what's your HCG dose?

[Bentiger07]

Hi Guys,
Long story short, I have ED and low T since 20s. As docs can't clearly pinpoint root cause, my theory is that it's due to slightly elevated cholesterol (genetic) since I was young. Tadalafil, bimix, and correcting low T has been most effective out of all things I've tried.

I was on TRT for about a yr. I stopped for almost a yr to make sure it was a commitment I needed as a guy in my early 30s, and now starting to realize I should be on it. I'm a low SHBG guy, and was once told by my doc that I'm a hyper-responder to aromatase/estrogen. Started twice a week, but felt better on daily.

So I plan to inject T and HCG daily in the same syringe. I was trying to figure out a average starting point. Based on my digging, I know alot of daily injectors start T around 16mg a day & adjust as needed, but what's a good starting point for HCG? Please feel free to share how much HCG and T you inject if you're a daily injector, and if you take any AI.

I'm currently under the care of an ED specialist for all this, Michael Werner in NY. I'm still feeling out his knowledge and treatment to see if I'll stay with him long term.

 

[Bentiger07]

I'm also unsure if I'll stay a daily injector. I certainly felt better injecting a lower weekly dose daily, versus a higher dose twice a week. Makes sense being a low SHBG guy.

But there may be room to test if injecting EOD works. Something I plan to test after I'm dailed in daily. So feel free to share your EOD T/HCG/AI protocols as well. Yes, I know we're all different but an average gives me an idea.

Thank You.

 

[Vince]

I inject 18 mg of testosterone cypionate daily and 500 IU of HCG twice a week. I use an easy touch 29 g half inch syringe. I'm not a low shbg guy.

I think a good starting daily dose is between 10 mg - 16 mg of testosterone and 100 IU of HCG. For a low shbg guy.

 

[Vince]

Link Removed

 

[Gman86]

Ya I think starting around 12-16mg/ day is a good starting dose when switching to daily. And as far as the HCG goes, I would also start very low and titrate up if needed. I would personally start around 70 units of HCG per day at most.

Also, if cholesterol is still a concern, I would look into your thyroid. From all my research, optimizing thyroid function seems to be the best way to improve cholesterol levels.

 

[captain]

Daily HCG dose is 100-150IU.

 

[Vince Carter]

Being low SHBG (like me) and you aromatase alot and are sensitive to even a little Estrogen, I would not use HCG or otherwise be very conservative with it like 200iu once per week. we're all different but the more likely outcome of HCG use is aromatase in the testes.
Like others, 16mg is a fair start point...you want to forget about the TT, target your Free T to not be over or much over the max lab range at trough, a start point to knowing where to adjust your dose.

 

[Vince Carter]

slightly elevated cholesterol

Has nothing to do with ED

 

[Gman86]

Daily HCG dose is 100-150IU.

Maybe eventually when he titrates up, but you really want to start low and go slow. I wouldn’t initially start with this high of a dose. With anything, you always want to find the minimum effective dose. But I’m with Vince, at the beginning, I personally wouldn’t even use HCG. I would get dialed in on T alone first.

 

[captain]

I started with 100IU. I think Crisler started all his guys with 100IU.

 

[Bentiger07]

Thanks guys. This forum has been a major help. Find myself reading here alot.

I remember about a yr ago before I stopped TRT, I was on 62mg Tcyp, 0.3mg AI, and 500IU HCG twice a week. Minimal improvement with libido. Eventually learned low SHBG guys benefit from frequent injections. I dropped the AI and moved to 9mg of Tcyp and 40IU of HCG daily. Felt GREAT for the 1st couple of weeks, but the flame died down about a month in. Think that's because my T was decreasing as the weeks went on (from the dosage/frequency change). Still felt better than my twice a week protocol though.

Based on that experience and results, I'm settling for 13mg Tcyp & 30IU HCG daily now. Maybe it's all in my head but I felt improvements in libido already, from the very 1st injection. I read about halflife of T and how it's shorter for SHBG guys. So if the benefits continues for 2-3 weeks & the #s look good when I test after 4 weeks, I'll consider myself dialed in. If not, I'll adjust T. Adjust HCG based on if there's shrinkage. Drop HCG or use AI if there's E2 symptoms.

I hear some people experience no shrinkage using T without HCG. Not sure how likely that is and if that means they're still fertile? I cryobanked sperm recently so I'm not worried about fertility much. The ED specialist I'm seeing actually owns a lab and cryobanking site, but he's on the expensive side. I may eventually look for a cheaper place to store the sperm. Not worried about it now.

 

[fifty]

Seems like a lot of guys really like changes.

 

[Bentiger07]

Seems like some of my posts from this thread and others got deleted. Forums been a bit funky last few days. Systemlord, I read your post here that got deleted too. Just found time to respond.

In short, I mentioned I felt significantly better last week at about 13-14mg T + 20IU HCG a day but not so much last few days. I asked if it was smart for low SHBG guys trying to get dialed in to start on the lower side of injection protocols with 10mg T + 10IU HCG a day. Then every 1-2 weeks or so, evaluate and if needed, add in 1mg to daily dosage. Stop increasing once the person feels good. Increase HCG only if the kids decrease in size and I can get away with doing so.

You said that's not a good way to do it. To stick with the same amount for 6 weeks and then adjust. You brought up a good thread that discusses the half life of T cypionate, which I already read long ago. I'm aware half-life is about 6-8 days, which means it would take the avg person to reach stable levels in 30-40 days (5-6 weeks).

However, I remember being told to forget everything I learned about half life by Vince Carter. Because low SHBG overrides half life, so it doesn't apply much to low SHBG guys because we piss it out fast. Although I'm unsure, I assume that infers that low SHBG guys reach stable levels quicker than the average person. So I'm unsure if low SHBG guys need to wait 5-8 weeks to reach stable levels?


History and #s:
I was on HRT for 1-2 yrs and then got off of it for 1 year. I'm going back on now with a different doctor and this time, I believe forever.

Bloodwork from last week right before I restarted injections:
Estradiol 16.3 pg/mL (0.1-56) (Unknown if doc ordered the sensitive or regular test, but I know that when I'm not on TRT, my T and E almost always come back low)
Total T 200 mcg/dL (300-1150)
SHBG 15.8 nmol/L (16.5-55.9)
Free Androgen Index 43.7 nmol/L (32.5-123.2)
Free T4 0.814 ng/dL (0.65-1.9)
Free T3 3.22 pg/mL 2.3-4.2
TSH-GHP 1.35 0.4-4
Total Bilirubin, Cholesterol, and LDL are usually always slightly elevated in tests. Everything else in normal ranges.

Numbers last yr while I was on 9.5mg Tcyp + 40IU HCG protocol daily for at least 2 months:
Total T 498 ng/dL 264 - 916 01
Free T(Direct) 13.4 pg/mL 8.7 - 25.1
Dihydrotestosterone 32 ng/dL 02 Reference Range: Adult Male: 30 - 85
Hemoglobin A1c Hemoglobin A1c 5.2 % 4.8 - 5.6 01
DHEA-Sulfate 202.6 ug/dL 138.5 - 475.2 01
TSH 1.410 uIU/mL 0.450 - 4.500 01
Prostate-Specific Ag, Serum Prostate Specific Ag, Serum 0.5 ng/mL 0.0 - 4.0 01
Estradiol, Sensitive 27.3 pg/mL 8.0 - 35.0 03 Methodology: LC/MS/MS
Sex Horm Binding Glob, Serum 20.2 nmol/L 16.5 - 55.9

 

[Gianluca]

Ya I think starting around 12-16mg/ day is a good starting dose when switching to daily. And as far as the HCG goes, I would also start very low and titrate up if needed. I would personally start around 70 units of HCG per day at most.

Also, if cholesterol is still a concern, I would look into your thyroid. From all my research, optimizing thyroid function seems to be the best way to improve cholesterol levels.

@Gman86 how often would you titrate up the HCG? would starting with a dose for two weeks be a good idea, then possibly increase?

I have recently started again HCG at 150IU daily with Pregnyl and wow, that was too much. I took 2 days off and starting it again tomorrow with a reduced dose. Years ago I used to use Empower HCG at the same 150IU daily

 

[Systemlord]

Systemlord, I read your post here that got deleted too. Just found time to respond.

In short, I mentioned I felt significantly better last week at about 13-14mg T + 20IU HCG a day but not so much last few days. I asked if it was smart for low SHBG guys trying to get dialed in to start on the lower side of injection protocols with 10mg T + 10IU HCG a day.

I never saw this post. I’m on Jatenzo now @237 mg twice daily and won’t be a low SHBG guy for long. SHBG is teetering 20-24.

I was also only responding to daily protocols, not as well as on EOD. Short half-life formulations of TRT seem to be the only protocols that work.

 

[Gman86]

@Gman86 how often would you titrate up the HCG? would starting with a dose for two weeks be a good idea, then possibly increase?

I have recently started again HCG at 150IU daily with Pregnyl and wow, that was too much. I took 2 days off and starting it again tomorrow with a reduced dose. Years ago I used to use Empower HCG at the same 150IU daily

Hmmm, I would probably titrate up every 2 weeks like u suggested. Half like is like 2 days, so steady state on a new dose occurs around 10 days. So adjusting dosage every 14 days, if needed, seems like a solid plan

What makes u feel like 150iu’s of Pregnyl daily is too much? What symptoms did u experience?

Whats ur goal with the HCG? Backfill hormones?

I haven’t done research on HCG in a while, but I did a ton when I was on HCG mono, and I remember reading something about the benefit of spacing injections out to at least EOD. Something about the receptors HCG attaches to needing at least 24 hours to resensitize. Not sure if it helps make the HCG work better, or if u just get more bang for ur buck doing it that way. Like more of the dosage ur injecting gets utilized. I personally always injected HCG EOD, and still do

 

[Gianluca]

What makes u feel like 150iu’s of Pregnyl daily is too much? What symptoms did u experience?

it started to affect my sleep, more difficult to fall asleep, waking up 2/3 times per night and having really vivid dreams. Getting up in the am with the feeling of not sleeping but still with energy.
Then, I believe it gave me some sort of anxiety that was probably almost similar to being overly stimulated, like feeling edgy in a way. For the first few days like about an hour post injection I would feel groggy in a similar way Progesterone cream on scrotum made me feel in the past, but this side effect disappeared. I think that sort of anxiety was also improving, but I decided to take 2 days off anyway. Plus some other funny feeling in my head.

I think I may restart tomorrow with a lower dose. How much do you think is acceptable to go up or down in dose like in my case? 25 or 50IU?

The last time I used HCG on regular basis was 4 years ago, beside a very short trial period during the 2020, maybe two weeks with it. Perhaps my system being dormant for so long was shocked with 150IU daily, I should have started lower. Also, according to the anecdotes in here, Pregnyl works much better than empower HCG I was using.

Whats ur goal with the HCG? Backfill hormones?

yes, just giving some LH stimulation to the body, see if improve any aspect of TRT I thought years ago worked better, and seeing if Pregnenolone works better with some HCG in, as I believe it did in the past for me.

what is your HCG protocol now days?