How to adjust dose for daily injections?

[jayss]

I'm currently taking 60mg e3d Cyp which is equivalent to 20mg/day for a total of 140/wk. This puts me around 850-900 on my trough. I want to switch to daily injections to drop my e2 a bit since I have some nipple sensitivity, soft erections, and a little water retention. I read that Dr Saya said you need less overall if you're doing daily injections.

1) What would be a good starting point? 16mg/day seems recommended, or should I stick with the same dose divided into 20mg/day? It seems like such a big drop to go from 140/wk to 112/wk, I'd be afraid of my levels dropping or something.

2) Assuming one was using the same dose e3d divided into ed, would e2 levels drop a noticeable amount because of the more frequent injections?

 

[Vince Carter]

I wouldn't assume E2 will drop through daily injections and I wouldn't recommend you make a huge leap from E3D to daily, either. Id recommend that you creep up on it a little slower and suggest EOD.

 

[jayss]

I wouldn't assume E2 will drop through daily injections and I wouldn't recommend you make a huge leap from E3D to daily, either. Id recommend that you creep up on it a little slower and suggest EOD.

Can I ask why? There seem to be benefits to daily injections by all accounts

 

[Vince Carter]

I just don't recommend daily's except in the toughest of cases and you're not there yet.

 

[madman]

I'm currently taking 60mg e3d Cyp which is equivalent to 20mg/day for a total of 140/wk. This puts me around 850-900 on my trough. I want to switch to daily injections to drop my e2 a bit since I have some nipple sensitivity, soft erections, and a little water retention. I read that Dr Saya said you need less overall if you're doing daily injections.

1) What would be a good starting point? 16mg/day seems recommended, or should I stick with the same dose divided into 20mg/day? It seems like such a big drop to go from 140/wk to 112/wk, I'd be afraid of my levels dropping or something.

2) Assuming one was using the same dose e3d divided into ed, would e2 levels drop a noticeable amount because of the more frequent injections?

What is your SHBG as it will dictate ones dose/injection frequency.

It is not a given that switching to daily will bring down your e2.

Sure smaller more frequent injections would cause less of a spike in e2 but again your SHBG/FT levels will have a big impact on e2.

You state your TT trough is 850-900 but what is your SHBG and where does your FT sit on such protocol (60 mg every 3 days)?

 

[jayss]

What is your SHBG as it will dictate ones dose/injection frequency.

It is not a given that switching to daily will bring down your e2.

Sure smaller more frequent injections would cause less of a spike in e2 but again your SHBG/FT levels will have a big impact on e2.

You state your TT trough is 850-900 but what is your SHBG and where does your FT sit on such protocol (60 mg every 3 days)?

My SHBG is 23, my free t direct is 207 pg/ml. Calculated the free t is about 21.9ng/dl.

My SHBG was 35 on a more conservative protocol (40 e3d) but my e2 was too low and my total t was 600 and calculated free t only 13.5

 

[Vince]

I'm currently taking 60mg e3d Cyp which is equivalent to 20mg/day for a total of 140/wk. This puts me around 850-900 on my trough. I want to switch to daily injections to drop my e2 a bit since I have some nipple sensitivity, soft erections, and a little water retention. I read that Dr Saya said you need less overall if you're doing daily injections.

1) What would be a good starting point? 16mg/day seems recommended, or should I stick with the same dose divided into 20mg/day? It seems like such a big drop to go from 140/wk to 112/wk, I'd be afraid of my levels dropping or something.

2) Assuming one was using the same dose e3d divided into ed, would e2 levels drop a noticeable amount because of the more frequent injections?

It seems like most members do better at 16 mg a day then anything higher. I tried 22 mg of testosterone cypionate, then I went down to 20 and then I eventually ended up at 16 mg daily. When you inject daily you need a lower weekly dose.

 

[Vince Carter]

I dropped in 2-4mg incrementally from I think 28mg/D all the way down to 12 then back to 14 and settled on 16, all based on my Free T trough.

 

[jayss]

It seems like most members do better at 16 mg a day then anything higher. I tried 22 mg of testosterone cypionate, then I went down to 20 and then I eventually ended up at 16 mg daily. When you inject daily you need a lower weekly dose.

What caused you to drop the dose?

 

[Vince]

All my levels were way too high. Here's my labs and protocol. I haven't had to donate blood in over a year.

My protocol is 16 mg of testosterone cypionate daily, 500 iu of HCG twice a week, 25 mg of DHEA, 10mg of pregnenolone and no AI.

Testosterone serum 1117 ng/dL range 264 - 916
Free T 30.3 pg/mL range 6.6 - 18.1
DHEA - Sulfate 347.3 range 48.9 - 344.2
Estradiol, Sensitive 29.5 range 8.0 - 35.0
SHBG 48.8 range 19.3 - 76.4
HCT 47.9 range 37.5 - 51.0

 

[jayss]

All my levels were way too high. Here's my labs and protocol. I haven't had to donate blood in over a year.

My protocol is 16 mg of testosterone cypionate daily, 500 iu of HCG twice a week, 25 mg of DHEA, 10mg of pregnenolone and no AI.

Testosterone serum 1117 ng/dL range 264 - 916
Free T 30.3 pg/mL range 6.6 - 18.1
DHEA - Sulfate 347.3 range 48.9 - 344.2
Estradiol, Sensitive 29.5 range 8.0 - 35.0
SHBG 48.8 range 19.3 - 76.4
HCT 47.9 range 37.5 - 51.0

Those are great numbers. My shbg is basically half of what your is. Would that change anything as far as dosing, 16mg/day and hcg 100iu/day?

 

[Vince]

Those are great numbers. My shbg is basically half of what your is. Would that change anything as far as dosing, 16mg/day and hcg 100iu/day?

I'm sure your labs will look different than mine. I still think the 16mg of testosterone would be the right starting dose. Then if you need to make any adjustments, you can just go from there.

 

[jayss]

I'm sure your labs will look different than mine. I still think the 16mg of testosterone would be the right starting dose. Then if you need to make any adjustments, you can just go from there.

Ok, thanks, I will use this as my starting point.

 

[MarkM]

I have been on various forms of TRT for 13 years. Until recently I was on 180 mg total Test Cypionate, 90 mg E3.5. My Ttl T was about 1,050 and Free T close to 30. I have have exact figures with me. My E2 was 34 and my SHBG was 30. I was pretty dialed in but my Hematocrit and Hemoglobin were normally way over the top of the range......always. I was giving blood on a regular basis and deleting my iron and ferritin. That was my only issue.

So I thought I would try daily injections to see if that helped my H&H and stop depleting my iron and ferritin.

I dropped my injections down to 22 mg a day or 154 mg a week. I ran this protocol for 8 full weeks and just got my labs back. Probably the best overall labs I have had since 1992.

Ttl T was 1012.6, Free T was 29.7, E2 was 18 and SHBG 39. Hematocrit was 51 and Hemoglobin 17. Both are normally higher and I have always given blood just before labs. No blood donation before these labs or in about 6 months.

While I would prefer the injecting E3.5D, injecting daily is not anything as bad as I thought it might be. It’s now just part of the daily routine when I wake up.

I would like to see my E2 higher. It averages about 35 on the E3.5D protocol and now is at 18. But daily injections cut my E2 in half.

Based on my SHBG one wouldn’t think daily injections would work for me but I feel as good as I did on the E3.5D protocol and have lower H&H.

I think I will run the ED protocol for another 8 weeks and retest to confirm these latest results. By the way, my iron and ferritin are improving nicely. Iron was 87 and ferritin was 153.

 

[mooseman109]

I went from 3x weekly to everyday in late august. I stsrted low at 10mg per day. T lecels were lower than i wanted, so i bumped to 16 mg daily about 3weeks ago,
My shbg is upper 40’s.
E2 was 22 on last labs after 8week protocol

 

[Dr Justin Saya MD]

Based on my SHBG one wouldn’t think daily injections would work for me but I feel as good as I did on the E3.5D protocol and have lower H&H.

Daily injections, though not always *necessary*, will always give more stability (invariably) than less frequent injection schedules.

See my automobile analogy from a couple years back in post 36:

Some insight on T cyp injection frequency and SC vs IM)

 

[MarkM]

Daily injections, though not always *necessary*, will always give more stability (invariably) than less frequent injection schedules.

See my automobile analogy from a couple years back in post 36:

Some insight on T cyp injection frequency and SC vs IM)

Thanks Doc! It seems like it may be accomplishing what I hoped it would.

 

[fifty]

How does daily work for mid/high shbg guys? Seems like it does but I thought they needed 1-2x weekly.

 

[at15]

rule of thumb reduce total weekly dose by 20% then adjust from there with labs

140 cut by 20% = 112, 112/7 = 16 daily