Cialis effect on estrogen

[smokedsalmon]

I've been recovering from crashing my E2 2 weeks ago, and obviously while I can't really get an erection like normal, I reach for the Cialis to get me by. Not a big deal, except I've noticed it seems to make me feel like crap (sore muscles, low energy, poor mood) about a day after taking it, and seems to last for a few days. This did not happen while my E2 was in range.

I found a few studies showing it has a pronounced effect on estrogen:
Tadalafil modulates aromatase activity and androgen receptor expression in a human osteoblastic cell in vitro model. - PubMed - NCBI
Testosterone:estradiol ratio changes associated with long-term tadalafil administration: a pilot study. - PubMed - NCBI

And...

A 2005 study found that 10 mg. and 20 mg. doses of Cialis, taken an average of 10 times a month, significantly reduced estradiol levels, but only in men who didn't have too much body fat (those with a BMI of less than 27) (1). Men with more body fat have higher levels of aromatase and convert testosterone to estradiol with impunity, regardless of how much Cialis they pop.

Tip: Viagra Is Great for Bodybuilders | T Nation

Is it possible that this short term fix is furthering the problem? Personally, I have to take 20-40mg of the drug for the desired effect. It's sadly been that way for years, and this increasing tolerance is part of my motivation for beginning on TRT.

 

[Vince Carter]

It could do that, to You the individual though I can't remember reading it on these forums past some minor speculation. One hall mark of low E is not being able to achieve an erection even with the drugs. Personally I much prefer 25-50mg of Viagra, has less sides for me.

 

[smokedsalmon]

It could do that, to You the individual though I can't remember reading it on these forums past some minor speculation. One hall mark of low E is not being able to achieve an erection even with the drugs. Personally I much prefer 25-50mg of Viagra, has less sides for me.

Speculation is all I'd say it is at this point, but I've noticed it a few times now. The erections with Cialis have definitely gotten better over the past few weeks though.

 

[Vince]

Yes I've always heard that, ED meds will increase testosterone and lower estrogen.

 

[Kazman]

I've been recovering from crashing my E2 2 weeks ago, and obviously while I can't really get an erection like normal, I reach for the Cialis to get me by. Not a big deal, except I've noticed it seems to make me feel like crap (sore muscles, low energy, poor mood) about a day after taking it, and seems to last for a few days. This did not happen while my E2 was in range.

I found a few studies showing it has a pronounced effect on estrogen:
Tadalafil modulates aromatase activity and androgen receptor expression in a human osteoblastic cell in vitro model. - PubMed - NCBI
Testosterone:estradiol ratio changes associated with long-term tadalafil administration: a pilot study. - PubMed - NCBI

And...

Tip: Viagra Is Great for Bodybuilders | T Nation

Is it possible that this short term fix is furthering the problem? Personally, I have to take 20-40mg of the drug for the desired effect. It's sadly been that way for years, and this increasing tolerance is part of my motivation for beginning on TRT.

I experienced the same thing from both Cialis and Viagra when taking AIs and my e2 was crashed or to low. Had the same side effects you mentioned along with making my head feel like it was going to explode. Just had to lay off those meds until my e2 came back up.

 

[Dro]

I have experienced this same thing with cialis i have low shbg so monitoring my e is always tricky but manageable. I could be fine and Have good erections but sometimes I take cialis for performance anxiety if I’m gonna be with a new partner and it laterally tanks me and makes me feel horrible and unable to achieve an erection takes two days to recover from it then I go with viagra and it does not happen but it’s still impacts estrogen but not as much. I have had this occur with cialis several times it effects your testosterone to estrogen ration and especially for people like me any change can affect my libido and erection quality immediately. I stay away from Ed drugs unless my estrogen is high.

 

[Nelson Vergel]

Tadalafil (Cialis) Decreases Estradiol.

 

[stevep]

Interesting. I started taking a daily low dose of Ceebis a while back. Shortly after the addition of Ceebis my need for a low dose AI (.125) went away. I never tied the two events together. I was just happy that I didn't need the AI any longer.

I'll accept the multiple benefits of Tadalafil over taking an AI any day.

There is so much good information on this site.

 

[smokedsalmon]

Tadalafil (Cialis) Decreases Estradiol.

Thanks Nelson!

 

[Ebstein]

Could daily low dose tadalafil lower the estrogen level too much?

 

[Vince]

Could daily low dose tadalafil lower the estrogen level too much?

It could if you have lower testosterone levels. But if you're able to have higher levels then I don't think your estrogen levels would go too low.

 

[Ebstein]

It could if you have lower testosterone levels. But if you're able to have higher levels then I don't think your estrogen levels would go too low.

Thanks Vince. My testosterone has been routinely 830-850’s for the last 5 years. I honestly feel fantastic since adding tadalafil to my daily regimen.

 

[Vince Carter]

When my E was high Cialis never ever reduced anything E related for me, my myriad of problems I had. 5-10mg/D didn't have this E reducing effect on me.

 

[murrayhewitt]

I think this is the missing link on me crashing my e2 lately. I was on a steady protocol finally felt good on trt which took a long time. I realized I must not aromatize much. I added cialis because I have chronic pelvic pain syndrome which affects my erections. Daily cialis Has really helped my pelvic pain and erections. Any advice on how to keep e2 up with it? No HCG right now Dr. won’t prescribe it and no worry about fertility anyways. Maybe a dose increase? I’m doing scrotal cream 1 click AM 1 PM.

 

[Nelson Vergel]

I doubt that the E2 decrease with Cialis is such that it brings it down to very low levels. But, heck, I have not seen data.

 

[murrayhewitt]

That was my initial thought too. But there’s literally no other variable change in my protocol other than adding cialis. My tell tale sign of low e2 is a massive headache that doesn’t go away until my levels get back up.

 

[Vince Carter]

That was my initial thought too. But there’s literally no other variable change in my protocol other than adding cialis. My tell tale sign of low e2 is a massive headache that doesn’t go away until my levels get back up.

You should get tested to verify before drawing conclusions on Cialis/E.

I could virtually guarantee that a change of ~3 didn't change any one's real landscape on anything. Of that thread, of course guys had better erections, you gave them 10-20mg of Cialis on demand. To make some conclusion that the Erections are Estrogen derived of a change that small, is a farce, from Nelson's link.

Tadalafil (Cialis) Decreases Estradiol.

from 19.9 ± 9.6 to 16.6 ± 8.1 ng/dL

 

[DaviSh]

This is my working theory of what may have caused my E2 crash. I feel like dog poo, no libido and very difficult erections.

I had recent bloodwork from LabCorp expecting high E2. I‘ve never once taken an AI:

TT >1500 (274-916)
FT 44.4 (6.8-21.5)
E2 sensitive <2.5 (8.0-35.0)

Upon request, DiscountLabs retested that sample and numbers were unchanged. Same blood sample, tested twice.

I have been using Tadalafil research liquid several times per week, up to 60mg per dose with diminishing effectiveness. So I began to suspect high E2, which I’ve never had trouble managing.

I don’t yet have results for a second blood draw testing T/F without upper range along with regular (non-sensitive E2).

I‘m wondering if maybe I put my E2 into a death spiral: initial erection symptoms led to Tadalafil, which lowered E2, which led to increased Tadalafil dosing to compensate, which ultimate crashed E2 totally. It’s just a theory, but I don’t know what else (assuming third round of labs confirm low E2) would have caused this precipitous drop.

I’m 6’2”, 195lbs, reasonably lean.

 

[murrayhewitt]

I think cialis may affect aromatization in some people enough to cause serious decrease in e2. For me it sucks because the cialis was working great but now I have to be careful with it as to not bring my e2 down too low.

 

[Sides]

I have been using Tadalafil research liquid several times per week, up to 60mg per dose with diminishing effectiveness. So I began to suspect high E2, which I’ve never had trouble managing.

DaviSh, tadalafil does decrease estradiol, and higher doses like you are using will of course decrease estradiol more than lower doses.

However, as you are using research chem liquid tadalafil, your problem may be simpler. Does the research chemical company you are using also sell aromatase inhibitors (arimidex, letrozole, aromasin, etc.)? Perhaps they are making their liquid products using the same lab equipment, and small amounts of their other products, like the AI's, are contaminating the liquid tadalafil. Or perhaps the raw ingredients the research company is using (all these research companies use raw powders imported from China) were processed on the same equipment as powders containing an AI. The research chemical business is that kind of gray market, quasi-legal kind of environment where you really have to watch what you are buying, and you don't know for sure what is in the product unless you are having it tested.

I would try switching to a different supplier of tadalafil, perhaps in tablet form instead of liquid, and see if the problems continue. And perhaps try dropping your dose, as 60mg is an awfully high dose of tadalafil (if it really is tadalafil.)

Just a thought, and best wishes to you.