Moderate libido on Testosterone and HCG

[alex_allex322]

That works well too. The less you take all at once, the less amount of aromatase should occur

Do you think taking HCG is still a good ideea? I used to take it to preserve testicle size. I've read that it's always a good ideea to take HCH while on TRT or long steroid cycles

 

[Stylo]

Do you think taking HCG is still a good ideea? I used to take it to preserve testicle size. I've read that it's always a good ideea to take HCH while on TRT or long steroid cycles

Recreate a baseline with no HCG. Test only

 

[DS3]

Recreate a baseline with no HCG. Test only

Reasoning? Advantage of doing so?

 

[Rock H. Johnson]

Geez... you again. Yes I read his post. The plunge is in regards to his Steroid abuse. He didn’t do his homework. Hence why he is here. Now what else would you like to take apart for your entertainment? You’re not helping...

Yes me again. I had no intention of "helping".
I can not speak for him but let me make an assumption, I do not think this is what Nelson made this website for. I for instance see none of the more knowledgeable members jumping on this for help.

 

[DS3]

Yes me again. I had no intention of "helping".
I can not speak for him but let me make an assumption, I do not think this is what Nelson made this website for. I for instance see none of the more knowledgeable members jumping on this for help.

Jeez. Thanks. Lol

 

[Rock H. Johnson]

Jeez. Thanks. Lol

You posted when I was writing.....lol

 

[Stylo]

I for instance see none of the more knowledgeable members jumping on this for help.

then join them, and stay put. Your empty words are lighter than the stones you cast. If someone walks in wanting to lower their dose to TRT levels then theyve walked into the right place. This is not in any way promoting the use of AAS or PED. Its quite the opposite.

 

[Stylo]

Reasoning? Advantage of doing so?

Baseline is where you can gauge where things should go. He has to simplify this mess. Lower his supra doses to manageable TRT doses with no HCG to also keep E levels from climbing. Once he is stable in 8-12 weeks he can decide to add 1 thing at a time and see if it makes a positive or negative change. No other way to know what is doing what if you have too many moving parts.

 

[DS3]

Baseline is where you can gauge where things should go. He has to simplify this mess. Lower his supra doses to manageable TRT doses with no HCG to also keep E levels from climbing. Once he is stable in 8-12 weeks he can decide to add 1 thing at a time and see if it makes a positive or negative change. No other way to know what is doing what if you have too many moving parts.

Understood. Thanks for clarifying.

I agree with you logic on simplification. However, many men on TRT feel suboptimal on T monotherapy. However, the addition of HCG in many men increases sense of well-being, energy, libido, etc.

The only real advantage that @alex_allex322 would receive from running T monotherapy would be the heightened ability to keep E2 lower.

Keeping it simply is definitely the way to go. However, test and HCG used concomitantly is a standard practice in TRT.

I see no disadvantage of keeping T at 200 mg per week and HCG at 250-400 IU EOD or 3 x weekly. Also, microdosing as @alex_allex322 mentioned is a best practice. Prop should be taken ED to create minimized fluctuations and reduce estrogenic symptoms . HCG EOD or 3 x per week.

 

[Stylo]

HCG is definitely a part of TRT. Im on it, but he has to set a nice solid baseline after messing around this much. HCG can be added of course, Just enough to stimulate the Leydig Cells though, and not to the point that his estrogen spikes. Taking Test in isolation is just his start point.

 

[DS3]

HCG is definitely a part of TRT. Im on it, but he has to set a nice solid baseline after messing around this much. HCG can be added of course, Just enough to stimulate the Leydig Cells though, and not to the point that his estrogen spikes. Taking Test in isolation is just his start point.

What I am saying, though, is there is no standard or evidence, anecdotally or clinically, that suggests one HAS TO start with T monotherapy in order to achieve a baseline. HCG will eventually have to be incorporated to maintain some level of fertility and likely well-being, so starting with both and keeping the dosage consistent would be to start a reliable and valid baseline.

if he were to start a baseline with T monotherapy and were to find the dosage of monotherapy that works for him yet later wanted to add in HCG (as he has previously ran while cycling so odds are he will want to run it), he would have to reestablish a new baseline with that and mitigate any estrogenic side effects that may occur at that junction. So, IF he potentially plans on adding in HCG later, there would be no advantage to not adding it in at the outset of his TRT.

 

[Stylo]

I see what you mean. He will have to make that choice for himself since its his protocol. Now just as a precaution, standalone Test is a foundation. Baseline may not be reached til he adds HCG. So I get what you’re saying. Restructuring his hormone panel is going to take time, of course.

 

[Westin]

With the lower dose of T, no AI is always a good idea, so with less Test you should be also see a drop in your E. Your body has to stabilize. Too soon to tell. You are the teacher, the student , and the guinea pig. No one else is in charge of what you do. So lowering the dose is a good start, but I will suggest EOD protocol to minimize the amount of aromatase. This will take weeks to see positive changes. But stay the course.

I disagree on the AI. Some people need it. I do since I added HCG. You need to stop telling every single user here that they don’t need an AI. One solution is not blanket for everyone.

 

[Vince]

I disagree on the AI. Some people need it. I do since I added HCG. You need to stop telling every single user here that they don’t need an AI. One solution is not blanket for everyone.

Spend some time this weekend watching the video, please.

Interview with Dr Ranjith Ramasamy- Author of Estradiol Papers

I am excited that one of the most published and respected uroogists in the United States has agreed to do a video interview to help me educate men on the role of estradiol in men. Here are his publications: Ranjith Ramasamy - Google Scholar Citations In particular, we will be discussing his...

www.excelmale.com

 

[Stylo]

I disagree on the AI. Some people need it. I do since I added HCG. You need to stop telling every single user here that they don’t need an AI. One solution is not blanket for everyone.

You should watch the video over and over. I love that the good doctor explains that not everyone is optimized with top of the range numbers. Perhaps if you lowered your T or your HCG dose, you wont need any AI.

 

[DS3]

You should watch the video over and over. I love that the good doctor explains that not everyone is optimized with top of the range numbers. Perhaps if you lowered your T or your HCG dose, you wont need any AI.

Agreed. Dr. Ramasamy put it PERFECTLY when he said that (paraphrasing) some, probably a sizeable amount, of guys don't need to be at the top of the reference range. If a man was at 600 ng/dL naturally and takes T (after a decline in natural T) and he shoots up to 1200 ng/dL, that man may very well experience side effects because his levels are not aligned with his homeostatic setpoint.

His logic, while not infallible, is strong. Probably why I keep having E2 issues at 1200 ng/dL, because naturally, I would have been closer to 600 ng/dL (and obviously at the upper end of the reference range your E2 will be higher).

 

[Westin]

You should watch the video over and over. I love that the good doctor explains that not everyone is optimized with top of the range numbers. Perhaps if you lowered your T or your HCG dose, you wont need any AI.

There are just as many that say the opposite. This is individual to each user. I’m happy with my doses and feel fine. I can post labs to show if needed. Now I have asked you to post your labs since you keep handing out this blanket recommendation, I asked 3 times for to post your labs so we can all see how you’re doing since you are offering advice and you refused.

 

[Stylo]

Your labs mean nothing to me and don’t prove that you’re on TRT. What you’re saying though is that if I took away your AI, your world would be turned upside down. You’re not fine. And stop saying “we”. You’re the gullible one who believes that Im a 17yr old who can buy alcohol in foreign countries.

 

[Westin]

Your labs mean nothing to me and don’t prove that you’re on TRT. What you’re saying though is that if I took away your AI, your world would be turned upside down. You’re not fine. And stop saying “we”. You’re the gullible one who believes that Im a 17yr old who can buy alcohol in foreign countries.

Utilizing an AI Is an individual decision and not one you are capable of making for people. What I’m saying is you’re giving a blanket answer of no AI’s to everyone you interact with that mentions an AI. I in fact need a small dose of an AI to feel optimal.

When asked to show you are a credible source of information by posting your labs so we can see that you actually know what you’re talking about, you refuse and come back with a juvenile response.

 

[Stylo]

I will continue to say AI is not necessary if you are optimized and you continue to take em. Im sure at some point you will figure it out for yourself. End of story. If you reply one more time, one more time... it is thou who is being juvenile. Good day.