Any advice?

[lawso1989]

Thanks for all that info there, I actually went gluten free years ago as soon as I started getting symptoms, it helped but after a few years I started eating a low gluten diet and felt pretty much the same. Will see what I get out of the endocrinologist and then take it from there but appreciate all the info. Thanks

 

[lawso1989]

So just another update on this situation as I know I've read through many forums and people don't really update it after a certain stage. I got to see an endo which turned out to be a complete waste of time. This specialist (who apparently was a professor at UBC) looked at me with a face of confusion and said she can't accept the blood results (thyroid specific) I got done in the UK, as the ranges are all different and the volume of measurements are also different. So she said I'll have to get more bloods test done and of lesser standards since its the free test through msp regulation done for her to understand . She also asked if I had any symptoms, which I had all wrote out for her, she looked at them and then said to me "even with your symptoms I can't do anything about that". Ive seen some bad Dr's on my time but this one took the absolute piss . And then people wonder why men don't go to the Dr's enough. And why we end up medicating ourselves. Any way after this I decided to get some enclomiphene from strate labs as an experiment it's almost 2 weeks at 6.25mg EOD and somethings working. I haven't needed to piss 6 times after drinking a sip of water, Ive slept for 8hours without waking for the first time in years, the constant pain in my lower back and shoulders has basically gone. The constant pumping of heartbeat in my head/cheat has calmed down and my libido has brought sex dreams and morning wood back to the scene which has been gone for aslong as the bad sleep. I still don't feel 100% but this symptom relief is a won battle for now. Ive read a lot about enclo and how after a month or so it's messes people up so far now was gonna maybe try 2 weeks on one week off til I finish the vial anyway. This is basically a trail to see if it did provide some kind of symptom relief which it has. Also its all fucked up because on paper my testosterone levels look great. Ahh the human body as magnificent as it is, man it's confusing!!

 

[lawso1989]

Just going to update this thread. Four months ago I deiced to jump on to trt with UGL stuff. Starting dose at 150mg split twice a week. Basically Life started getting better and I went off travelling south America. Ive been sleeping great body has recomposed to how it used to look, maybe even better. Strength went up but also went down. I went and got some basic bloods done at trough. total T, free T, and E2 just to keep an eye on things. My Total T is 1270, free T 30 pg/ml (reference 5.53-18.2). E2 59 pg/ml.

Judging by that at peak my Total would be 1500ish and E2 would be 70+ which is definitely not the numbers I would be aiming for or feeling for. I can definitely feel the high E2 symptoms, nothing major, but I can feel it muscle fatigue, mental fatigue and 80% erections (morning wood/2am wood is back sometimes now which is amazing to feel after all these years)

Does anyone know if dropping my dose by 10mg would be enough to drop the numbers? Or is that wishful thinking and it needs to drop more?Thank

Full disclosure I'll get a full blood panel done when I'm back from this travelling.

 

[FunkOdyssey]

Does anyone know if dropping my dose by 10mg would be enough to drop the numbers? Or is that wishful thinking and it needs to drop more?Thank

Probably needs to drop more to make a significant difference in both numbers and symptoms. I would drop 20 mg to 130 mg.

 

[lawso1989]

Thanks for the reply

Probably needs to drop more to make a significant difference in both numbers and symptoms. I would drop 20 mg to 130 mg.

Thanks for the reply. Curious do people take an AI when they drop their dose to offset the E2 imbalance or is that just over complicating things?

 

[FunkOdyssey]

Thanks for the reply

Thanks for the reply. Curious do people take an AI when they drop their dose to offset the E2 imbalance or is that just over complicating things?

That is overcomplicating things - there is no need. Any change in the T/E2 ratio that occurs when you reduce dose will be minor and very temporary. You'll just throw everything more out of wack by introducing an AI.

 

[lawso1989]

Just want to update this post and see if I can get some more advice. I dropped my dose from 150 to 140 a week back when I was still travelling and things were still going well definitely went through 4 weeks of a dose change symptoms. I got back to Canada 3months ago and as soon as I was back I ordered a new batch of ugl stuff. I was feeling good,hair was growing quick,shoulders were pumped. then I started to feel a bit off hair slowed down, loss of motivation so thought. I better get some blood work done.

My testosterone came back at 28.1 nmol/l which is like 810 ng/Dl and my e2 came in at 41 pmol/l (11. 1pg/ml)

That's a big drop in numbers for such a small change in dose?it's possible the old gear was overdosed? It feele like its put me back into low levels. The e2 is basically what I was at before trt. The rest of my blood work looks good just slightly elevated hemocrit and slightly below range on b12.
This game is stressful!

Thanks any advice would be great.

 

[madman]

Just going to update this thread. Four months ago I deiced to jump on to trt with UGL stuff. Starting dose at 150mg split twice a week. Basically Life started getting better and I went off travelling south America. Ive been sleeping great body has recomposed to how it used to look, maybe even better. Strength went up but also went down. I went and got some basic bloods done at trough. total T, free T, and E2 just to keep an eye on things. My Total T is 1270, free T 30 pg/ml (reference 5.53-18.2). E2 59 pg/ml.

Judging by that at peak my Total would be 1500ish and E2 would be 70+ which is definitely not the numbers I would be aiming for or feeling for. I can definitely feel the high E2 symptoms, nothing major, but I can feel it muscle fatigue, mental fatigue and 80% erections (morning wood/2am wood is back sometimes now which is amazing to feel after all these years)

Does anyone know if dropping my dose by 10mg would be enough to drop the numbers? Or is that wishful thinking and it needs to drop more?Thank

Full disclosure I'll get a full blood panel done when I'm back from this travelling.

Just going to update this thread. Four months ago I deiced to jump on to trt with UGL stuff. Starting dose at 150mg split twice a week.


You jumped in head first here!

Standard starting dose is 100 mg T/week or 50 mg split twice-weekly.

Most men on TTh are injecting 100-200 mg T/week whether once weekly or split into more frequent injections.

The majority of men can easily hit a healthy let alone high trough FT injecting 100-150 mg T/week especially when split into more frequent injections.

Some men can hit stellar levels injecting <100 mg T/week especially when increasing the injection frequency.

Yes there will always be those outliers who may need the higher-end dose 200 mg T/week but its far from common as in rare.

Unfortunately many are overmedicated on T especially from the get-go!

Trust me when I say coming down is. always harder than going up.

150 mg T/week especially split twice-weekly is overkill off the hop.

You should have looked into this deeper especially before self-treating with UGL gear.




I went and got some basic bloods done at trough. total T, free T, and E2 just to keep an eye on things. My Total T is 1270, free T 30 pg/ml (reference 5.53-18.2). E2 59 pg/ml.


Although TT is important to know FT is what truly matters as it is the active unbound fraction of T responsible for the positive effects.

Based on your labs you are hitting a very high trough TT 1270 ng/dL and more importantly a very high trough FT but the s**tkicker here is we have no idea what testing method (calculate, direct immunoassay, Equilibrium Dialysis or Ultrafiltration) was used which is critical here.

Always need to post the reference range with the testing method used.

The only way to know where your FT truly sits would be testing it using the most accurate assay the gold standard Equilibrium Dialysis especially in cases of altered SHBG.

Otherwise you would need to use/rely on the go to calculated linear law-of-mass action Vermeulen which will give a good approximation.

No one should be using/relying on the known to be inaccurate direct immunoassay which is unfortunately still pushed by those clueless doctors, run of the mill T-clinics and half-wits stinking up those so called men's health/HRT forums that have no clue what they are talking about here!

Top it all off that you need to use the same lab/same assays most accurate), TT/estradiol (LC-MS/MS) and FT (Equilibrium Dialysis).

Especially when comparing results!

Even then if you are hitting a very high trough TT 1270 ng/dL even if you had highish/high SHBG it is a given your trough FT would be high-end/high.

What lab was used and what testing method for the most critical blood marker free testosterone?

You left out your SHBG and critical blood markers RBCs, hemoglobin and hematocrit which are a must when using exogenous T whether therapeutically or abusing T/AAS!




Does anyone know if dropping my dose by 10mg would be enough to drop the numbers? Or is that wishful thinking and it needs to drop more?


Dropping the dose by 10 mg will not have a big impact on bringing down your TT/FT.

If anything 20 mg would be a sensible move.

Even then any time a protocol is tweaked (increasing/decreasing dose of T) or manipulating injection frequency you will need to wait 6 weeks before getting labs done seeing as it takes 4-6 weeks to reach your new steady-state when injecting TC/TE due to the PK.

If you get labs to soon your results would be skewed.

You need to think this one through.

If anything you should have started out on a lower weekly dose.

As we always say it's best to start low and go slow on a T-only protocol so you can see how your body reacts to testosterone and where said protocol (dose of T/injection frequency) has your trough TT and more importantly FT and estradiol let alone critical blood markers RBCs, hemoglobin and hematocrit.

There will always be time to increase the dose or throw in hCG if need be!

 

[madman]

Just want to update this post and see if I can get some more advice. I dropped my dose from 150 to 140 a week back when I was still travelling and things were still going well definitely went through 4 weeks of a dose change symptoms. I got back to Canada 3months ago and as soon as I was back I ordered a new batch of ugl stuff. I was feeling good,hair was growing quick,shoulders were pumped. then I started to feel a bit off hair slowed down, loss of motivation so thought. I better get some blood work done.

My testosterone came back at 28.1 nmol/l which is like 810 ng/Dl and my e2 came in at 41 pmol/l (11. 1pg/ml)

That's a big drop in numbers for such a small change in dose?it's possible the old gear was overdosed? It feele like its put me back into low levels. The e2 is basically what I was at before trt. The rest of my blood work looks good just slightly elevated hemocrit and slightly below range on b12.
This game is stressful!

Thanks any advice would be great.

My testosterone came back at 28.1 nmol/l which is like 810 ng/Dl and my e2 came in at 41 pmol/l (11. 1pg/ml)


You left out the most critical blood marker free testosterone.

This means nothing without knowing where your trough FT sits.

Even then any time you compare labs you need to stick with the same lab/same testing method (most accurate) especially for free testosterone.

If you do not have access to to the gold standard ED assay then you can easily calculate your FT using the linear law-of-mass action cFTV just plug in your TT, SHBG and Albumin but you still need to have your TT tested using the most accurate assay (LC-MS/MS) do get an accurate result.

Free & Bioavailable Testosterone calculator

That's a big drop in numbers for such a small change in dose?it's possible the old gear was overdosed? It feele like its put me back into low levels. The e2 is basically what I was at before trt. The rest of my blood work looks good just slightly elevated hemocrit and slightly below range on b12.


Depends on what brand of UGL you were using as there are still numerous products on the market that can be under/overdosed or worst case scenario bunk!

Always best to stick with a reputable brand that has been tested.

 

[lawso1989]

Appreciate your Indepth reply you kind of went off on one tho. I'm making do with the tests that I can find, it's not all simple here in the west coast of Canada.

When I started in 150mg. My trough was high at 1200 and e2 was 59 (felt good with some side but knew everything was too high)

I dropped down 10mg and got a new batch and now my trough is 810 and e2 is 11 (almost feel like pre trt but I still get a good sleep and no joint pain). So something isn't adding up. is it under dosed gear?(apparently it's tested via 3rd party and its good). Or was the old gear overdosed? Maybe my body doesnt like my balls being shut down and i need to add hcg? Or maybe I need to up the dose and hope that all the gear I get from now on Is the same quality. Or maybe I need to come off it. so many variables that's really suck.

If I had of started on 100mg I would not be in a very good position. I have done lots of research on this for the past years and unfortunately I know I'm not in the right country or the right position to find a Dr who is willing to help me so unfortunately I have to go at it alone and with the help of this community.