Advice and opinions needed/should I or shouldnt I?

[Coltsblue1844]

Hey guys, first time poster…39 years old next month.

I’ve been getting bloodwork done each year for a long time…i first had my Total and Free testosterone etc checked about 6 years ago. Back then, my reading was mid 400s for total t…it has steadily gone down each year and finally this year was mid 250s and free t in the 50s and estrogen of 29.
I’ve been hesitant to start TRT, even though my doctor has willingly prescribed it to me for whenever i decide to use it. Over the past 6 months, ive lost about 20 pounds (i’m currently 6’5 250s), i’ve brought up my D3 levels and B12 levels (they had been low). I’ve focused on better sleep, lifting heavy and eating better… i was retested on Monday and my results were:

Total T - 315 ng/dl
Free T - 62 pg/ml
SHBG - 28 nmol/L
Estrogen - 26 pg/ml
DHEA-S - 187 ug/dL
Free T3 - 4.13 pg/ml
Free T4 - .96 ng/dl
TSH - 1.120 uIU/ml
PSA - .71

With all of that said, i need advice and opinions… should i try to keep boosting it naturally and hope for the best, or should i go ahead with the 100mg testosterone cypionate per week that my doctor has prescribed? He has left it up to me on if/when i start and how often i inject as well as if i go IM or SubQ…he just wants me to let him know the day i do start if i do, and to not go above the 100mg / week that he prescribed.
I have all of the normal low T symptoms, (low energy, fatigue, no motivation, brain fog, muscle n strength loss etc) except i do get frequent morning wood…just no real desire to use it!

Should i take the plunge? Should i go IM or SubQ? if i go SubQ, what size needles should i use? (Gauge and length) what dose has been successful and what are your levels?
I would like the lowest dose to bring me to normal levels and that make me feel my best…prefer no AI or HCG, just testosterone, if possible.

Any and all opinions, advice, questions etc will be greatly appreciated.

 

[bbex2014]

I would say that at 39 y/o your levels are only going down from here. My advice would be to take the plunge, but obviously you have to be ready to do it for life.

I hope your doc is open to going higher than 100 mg if need be, some rare people need over 200 mg to feel optimized.

I did daily injections of cyp for a few years, and I used anything from a 27 gauge needle to a 31 gauge. My favorite was a 29 gauge insulin needle injected sub q or sometimes shallow intramuscular. If I could reach it I would inject there. You shold be injecting atleast twice per week though

 

[Coltsblue1844]

I would say that at 39 y/o your levels are only going down from here. My advice would be to take the plunge, but obviously you have to be ready to do it for life.

I hope your doc is open to going higher than 100 mg if need be, some rare people need over 200 mg to feel optimized.

I did daily injections of cyp for a few years, and I used anything from a 27 gauge needle to a 31 gauge. My favorite was a 29 gauge insulin needle injected sub q or sometimes shallow intramuscular. If I could reach it I would inject there. You shold be injecting atleast twice per week though

My doctor will not go over 100mg, but has told me i can split it however i like... i plan to start low dose daily shots with an insulin pin, i believe... and IF i need over 100mg per week, i will just pay out of pocket and go with Defy...but i'm hoping that 100mg is plenty, as it is nice to have insurance pay for everything!

My biggest hurdle to starting, is mental... the "what ifs" so to speak. What if i feel worse...what if it causes my panic attacks that i had when i was younger to return ( had them as a kid, up until age 17...then i had ZERO until age 30. Oddly enough, i had 0 during the years that my natural levels wouldve been highest, so part of me thinks the TRT may make it better by far instead of worse).

Either way, thanks for the reply!

 

[Systemlord]

A 100mg dose for a daily protocol should be more than enough. It is strange though you doctor should be concerned about levels and not dosages.

 

[seppuku]

How are you feeling at 315 though, what are your symptoms?

 

[seppuku]

Just re read, you're getting fatigue. But, you're also getting morning boners....tricky one...

 

[bbex2014]

A 100mg dose for a daily protocol should be more than enough. It is strange though you doctor should be concerned about levels and not dosages.

I know right, it would be like a doctor prescribing a diabetic just 3 units of humalog daily no matter what lol

 

[Coltsblue1844]

I know right, it would be like a doctor prescribing a diabetic just 3 units of humalog daily no matter what lol

I agree...a lot of "family doctors" are new at the whole TRT thing, and aren't comfortable giving more than the "on lable" usage that's reccomend! I'm hoping 100mg will be plenty, as my doctor is really great...if not, I can go with Defy for TRT

 

[fifty]

Sounds like you’re making progress w/o trt. Lifestyle improvement is a better fix than trt.

 

[Coltsblue1844]

Sounds like you’re making progress w/o trt. Lifestyle improvement is a better fix than trt.

But just how much higher can I reasonably expect to raise things, naturally?

 

[Cataceous]

But just how much higher can I reasonably expect to raise things, naturally?

Not much, unless there's some significant underlying health problem or deficiency that can be corrected. I agree that the decision to go on TRT should not be taken lightly. But with your numbers the only serious alternative is a trial with Clomid or enclomiphene or hCG.

 

[Coltsblue1844]

Not much, unless there's some significant underlying health problem or deficiency that can be corrected. I agree that the decision to go on TRT should not be taken lightly. But with your numbers the only serious alternative is a trial with Clomid or enclomiphene or hCG.

I could lose another 30lbs to be at my ideal weight...my D3 is normal range but lower end, same with b12...other than that, everything is in line. I just dont know how much more either of those things would boost my #s... I lost 20lbs, brought my D3 and B12 up from deficient levels and T went up 60 points...even if I got it up another 100, I would still just be at 400... it isnt something I'm taking lightly, as I've been sub 400 for 5 years now and have had an open script from my doc to start when I'd like, but I still haven't.
Definitely leaning that direction, now, though

 

[xqfq]

Please note that prolonged dieting lowers GnRH and thus LH, thus will lower T levels. Natural bodybuilders are often sub 100 ng/dL before competition. Some of this is because of low body fat, but I suspect it’s just the caloric restriction itself.

If you wanted to investigate further, you could re-test after not dieting for several months.

 

[Coltsblue1844]

Please note that prolonged dieting lowers GnRH and thus LH, thus will lower T levels. Natural bodybuilders are often sub 100 ng/dL before competition. Some of this is because of low body fat, but I suspect it’s just the caloric restriction itself.

If you wanted to investigate further, you could re-test after not dieting for several months.

i had actually lost more weight than the 20 lbs, and since i planned to get tested, i ate at/above maint calories for over 2 months before this recent test

 

[fifty]

But just how much higher can I reasonably expect to raise things, naturally?

Who cares what your numbers are? If your diet and exercise are improving, isn’t that good enough?

 

[Vince]

If you do decide to go with daily injections. It seems like a good daily dose would be 16 mg of testosterone. Just a hair over your maximum weekly dose. I use an Easy Touch 29g 1/2 inch syringe for my daily injections. If you're using cottonseed oil a 27 gauge would be better. I really enjoyed shallow IM injections, I inject my shoulders and VG.


Best testosterone injection site, no aspiration needed, avoids all nerves

 

[Coltsblue1844]

Who cares what your numbers are? If your diet and exercise are improving, isn’t that good enough?

Diet and exercise improving while feeling like crap n having to force yourself to go do it...no, that's not "good enough " for anyone, really, is it?

 

[Gman86]

I would definitely do a trial of TRT if I were you. I really don’t understand the hesitancy. What do you have to lose? If you don’t like it, you get off of it, no need to even do PCT, and your numbers all go back to baseline after a month or so. I’m not seeing any reason to not trial it with your age, labs, and symptoms.

If I were you, I would inject 14mg daily, or 28mg EOD (EOD is plenty frequent with your SHBG), and then if you don’t feel better on that dose, I would just call up Defy and start working with them. I personally would go with IM injections. Sub Q can obviously work, but it just seems like sub Q is hit or miss whether it works for guys. IM seems to have a higher success rate, imo.

I understand TRT can be scary to someone that hasn’t tried it, but imo it’s nothing to be scared about. It’s like taking vitamin D when your vitamin D levels are low. You take vitamin D, and monitor your blood work to make sure your vitamin D levels are within range. Same thing with testosterone. I’m with defy, and using the testosterone cream. I apply the cream real quick twice a day (even though you can do once per day) and then get my levels checked. As long as you don’t let your testosterone levels get too high, you don’t even have to check anything else, like E2, HCT + HGB, DHT. You just make sure your testosterone levels are good, and your symptoms are resolving/ resolved, and you go on your way. And if fertility is an issue, you don’t have to worry about that either. There’s more than enough options to have children while on TRT. So again, it’s extremely simple, and risk free imo, when done properly. And it’s very simple to do properly once you know what you’re doing.

 

[Coltsblue1844]

I would definitely do a trial of TRT if I were you. I really don’t understand the hesitancy. What do you have to lose? If you don’t like it, you get off of it, no need to even do PCT, and your numbers all go back to baseline after a month or so. I’m not seeing any reason to not trial it with your age, labs, and symptoms.

If I were you, I would inject 14mg daily, or 28mg EOD (EOD is plenty frequent with your SHBG), and then if you don’t feel better on that dose, I would just call up Defy and start working with them. I personally would go with IM injections. Sub Q can obviously work, but it just seems like sub Q is hit or miss whether it works for guys. IM seems to have a higher success rate, imo.

I understand TRT can be scary to someone that hasn’t tried it, but imo it’s nothing to be scared about. It’s like taking vitamin D when your vitamin D levels are low. You take vitamin D, and monitor your blood work to make sure your vitamin D levels are within range. Same thing with testosterone. I’m with defy, and using the testosterone cream. I apply the cream real quick twice a day (even though you can do once per day) and then get my levels checked. As long as you don’t let your testosterone levels get too high, you don’t even have to check anything else, like E2, HCT + HGB, DHT. You just make sure your testosterone levels are good, and your symptoms are resolving/ resolved, and you go on your way. And if fertility is an issue, you don’t have to worry about that either. There’s more than enough options to have children while on TRT. So again, it’s extremely simple, and risk free imo, when done properly. And it’s very simple to do properly once you know what you’re doing.

How long have you been on the cream? How do you feel on it? #s before and after? Just weighing options and see lots of success with the cream.

Thanks for your detailed response!

 

[madman]

I would definitely do a trial of TRT if I were you. I really don’t understand the hesitancy. What do you have to lose? If you don’t like it, you get off of it, no need to even do PCT, and your numbers all go back to baseline after a month or so. I’m not seeing any reason to not trial it with your age, labs, and symptoms.

If I were you, I would inject 14mg daily, or 28mg EOD (EOD is plenty frequent with your SHBG), and then if you don’t feel better on that dose, I would just call up Defy and start working with them. I personally would go with IM injections. Sub Q can obviously work, but it just seems like sub Q is hit or miss whether it works for guys. IM seems to have a higher success rate, imo.

I understand TRT can be scary to someone that hasn’t tried it, but imo it’s nothing to be scared about. It’s like taking vitamin D when your vitamin D levels are low. You take vitamin D, and monitor your blood work to make sure your vitamin D levels are within range. Same thing with testosterone. I’m with defy, and using the testosterone cream. I apply the cream real quick twice a day (even though you can do once per day) and then get my levels checked. As long as you don’t let your testosterone levels get too high, you don’t even have to check anything else, like E2, HCT + HGB, DHT. You just make sure your testosterone levels are good, and your symptoms are resolving/ resolved, and you go on your way. And if fertility is an issue, you don’t have to worry about that either. There’s more than enough options to have children while on TRT. So again, it’s extremely simple, and risk free imo, when done properly. And it’s very simple to do properly once you know what you’re doing.

No need to jump right into daily or EOD injections.....even with an SHBG of 28 nmol/L.....twice weekly (every 3.5 days) would suffice!

Sure some may not do well injecting sub-q regarding issues with lumps/pain but absorption will be the same albeit sub-q may be some what slower.

Some have stated that they do hit lower TT levels when injecting sub-q (definitely not common).

Yes some do tend to feel better injecting IM vs sub-q but IM is in no way more effective!

Piss poor advice regarding just checking TT.....FT level is critical and regarding estradiol too low E2 levels are detrimental.....let alone keeping an eye on hemoglobin/hematocrit!

You have been watching too many of those youtube videos and are starting to sound like the supposed king of scrotal palming you know that infamous doctor many are dick riding!