A.I advice

[johnjohnson]

Background :

Symptoms:
night sweats
low libido
bloating
fatigue


Protocol:
Mon morning and thur night:
test cyp 58mg
wednesday night and sunday morning:
HCG 125IU

Latest Labs:
total test always 750-900
free test upper end of the range
Shbg: 23.9 (16-55)
Dht: 61 (30-85)
Dhea: 346 ( 138-475)
Last two e2: 45 and 41 on sensitive test. I have never been in range for this as long as Ive been on(little over 2 years now).

I also regularly have cbc, cmp, psa, and other labs drawn. I manage hematocrit with blood donation.


I am now at almost a month of using a low dose arimidex. I am prescribed .125mg twice a week. However, once I started taking it I noticed a lot of changes. My energy levels were better, baseline libido is better, and my overall attitude is better as well. I also notice when my estrogen begins to rise now. I can get pretty teary eyed at the dumbest things and extremely fatigued, I take my AI dose and the fatigue disappears. I believe that I was so used to my elevated estrogen level for so long I didn't notice how much of an effect it was having on me. My question is that I cant seem to find the right dose. I am prescribed two times a week, but I quickly realized that wasn't enough. I take .125mg tuesday morning, friday night, and sunday morning. First two shots are 24hrs after my test, last one is at the same time as HCG. I tried it at same time as test injection and that did not offer much benefit, switched to 24hrs after and it was pretty instantaneous. However, I still feel like it is not enough, but I am extremely afraid of overdoing it because I come from a background of low e2 and know what that hell is like. Just looking for insight on where to go from here.

 

[HealthMan]

If I could give you one advise. The way you feel in the following days or weeks of adding/removing/changing dosage of hormones (in the case on anastrozole you are changing your E2 levels) most of the time is not representative of how you will feel long term. So after changing something give it time before determining how you feel and trying to make further changes.

 

[Systemlord]

You could drop the AI and start an everyday or EOD protocol, this will lower estrogen since you're aromatise less per injection since the dose is much smaller, so if you injected 10-12mg daily, weeks down the road estrogen will be lower.

Think about it, how much you aromatise on a 58mg injection, now imagine how much you would aromatise on a 10-12mg injection. After 6 weeks estrogen would come down and no AI may be needed at all.

More frequent injections can also eliminate the need to donate blood as it can lower hematocrit.

In my experience AI dosing constantly needs adjustment, what you'll need now is not what you'll need later. The same can be said about testosterone dosages.

 

[fifty]

Your e2 was at 41 with no AI now you're taking 3 doses of AI and want to take more?

I would keep doing what you're currently doing until your next set of labs. Your dosing schedule seems pretty complex so eventually EOD everything would be simpler than:

Mon (AM)- T
Tue (AM)- AI
Wed (PM)- HCG
Thur (PM)- T
Fri (PM)- AI
Sun (AM)- HCG, AI

 

[johnjohnson]

Your e2 was at 41 with no AI now you're taking 3 doses of AI and want to take more?

I would keep doing what you're currently doing until your next set of labs. Your dosing schedule seems pretty complex so eventually EOD everything would be simpler than:

Mon (AM)- T
Tue (AM)- AI
Wed (PM)- HCG
Thur (PM)- T
Fri (PM)- AI
Sun (AM)- HCG, AI

I agree it’s complicated, but it’s working. I want to take more because I feel great on AI days, and back to shitty on days when I don’t take it. I’m not in any rush to mess with dosing, and won’t before labs. Just looking for advice is all.

I also understand most people here wouldn’t take an AI at 41, and this sub is the main reason I never went down that route. However now that I’m on it I feel a million times better. Everybody’s physiology is different, 41 might be higher for me than it is for others.

 

[johnjohnson]

You could drop the AI and start an everyday or EOD protocol, this will lower estrogen since you're aromatise less per injection since the dose is much smaller, so if you injected 10-12mg daily, weeks down the road estrogen will be lower.

Think about it, how much you aromatise on a 58mg injection, now imagine how much you would aromatise on a 10-12mg injection. After 6 weeks estrogen would come down and no AI may be needed at all.

More frequent injections can also eliminate the need to donate blood as it can lower hematocrit.

In my experience AI dosing constantly needs adjustment, what you'll need now is not what you'll need later. The same can be said about testosterone dosages.

Honestly this will probably be what I end up doing. However at the moment I am a young dude who likes to travel. Injecting as much as I do is already a hassle in those situations. Having supplies, enough medicine, cooler for hcg, etc. So basically I’m just not ready for that yet. I do understand the benefits though.

 

[johnjohnson]

If I could give you one advise. The way you feel in the following days or weeks of adding/removing/changing dosage of hormones (in the case on anastrozole you are changing your E2 levels) most of the time is not representative of how you will feel long term. So after changing something give it time before determining how you feel and trying to make further changes.

I completely agree. I think I should have made it more clear in my post I wasn’t in a rush to change things. I also never change anything before bloodwork either. I simply wanted some opinions on what I could do down the road to increase the number of days per week when I feel good.

 

[fifty]

If you want to minimize injections due to travel you could try MWF test & hcg. Any reason you separate the days for them?

 

[johnjohnson]

If you want to minimize injections due to travel you could try MWF test & hcg. Any reason you separate the days for them?

Honestly just what I’ve always done. I tried same day and hcg just really raises my estrogen. Hence why I take such a low dose. The two at the same time did not make me feel good.

 

[lemonflavor]

To answer your question, some will add another day instead of adding a larger dose each time. Four would be awkward though. Otherwise, you could look into compounding into smaller doses, or the 'vodka trick' where you crush a tablet and mix it into a shot of vodka and use a dropper for dosing. You'd need to search for that, I don't know the specifics.

 

[Vince Carter]

I agree it’s complicated, but it’s working. I want to take more because I feel great on AI days, and back to shitty on days when I don’t take it. I’m not in any rush to mess with dosing, and won’t before labs. Just looking for advice is all.

I also understand most people here wouldn’t take an AI at 41, and this sub is the main reason I never went down that route. However now that I’m on it I feel a million times better. Everybody’s physiology is different, 41 might be higher for me than it is for others.

You're on to something, very intune with your body. You have to avoid the trap on the forum that is the anti-AI/crashed E2 crowd that thinks they know what they're doing yet ignores and refuses to learn about the SHBG factor that is in play with Estrogen.

 

[Blackhawk]

Going from Q3D to QOD helped me. I take T cyp, HCG and anastrozole all same day. Even at Q3D I was having estrogen mood swings and bloating. At QOD it is more stable with the slightest hints of dosing and non dosing days feeling a little different, but not enough to worry about it.

I was also able to lower T dosage since troughs increase on more frequent dosing. I may be a little sub optimal with T levels, but I could not donate to manage high hematocrit due to low ferritin.

 

[James]

johnjohnson - one of the best things I've done over the years is to implement a low-dose AI (.125mg) with each of my twice weekly injections of 50 mg cypionate. My labs would not necessarily say that it's necessary, but with my sensitivity to estradiol, the fact I've had gynecomastia removal surgery, and my SHBG around 18 (Lab Corps), low dose AI has been a game-changer for the better.

 

[Vince Carter]

johnjohnson - one of the best things I've done over the years is to implement a low-dose AI (.125mg) with each of my twice weekly injections of 50 mg cypionate. My labs would not necessarily say that it's necessary, but with my sensitivity to estradiol, the fact I've had gynecomastia removal surgery, and my SHBG around 18 (Lab Corps), low dose AI has been a game-changer for the better.

Nice to see this working for a guy besides me. @James

 

[joshmaximus]

If you want to minimize injections due to travel you could try MWF test & hcg. Any reason you separate the days for them?

If one was to do the m/w/f protocol would u do the hcg twice a week still or would u split it up m/w/f to?