How to start everyday injection

[johnjohnson]

Protocol:
Mon morning and thur night:
test cyp 58mg
wednesday night and sunday morning:
HCG 125IU
arimidex .125 2x a week

Latest Labs(before arimidex):
total test always 750-900
free test upper end of the range
Shbg: 23.9 (16-55)
Dht: 61 (30-85)
Dhea: 346 ( 138-475)
Last two e2: 45 and 41 on sensitive test. I have never been in range for this as long as Ive been on(little over 2 years now and multiple symptoms that were alleviated with arimidex).

I also regularly have cbc, cmp, psa, and other labs drawn. I manage hematocrit with blood donation.

I have not had new labs done since adding the arimidex, but subjectively I have had a 25-30% improvement in multiple areas. I posted a few weeks ago about wanting to increase A.I dosing after getting the next bloodwork. I know for certain I benefit from the estradiol lowering effects of arimidex. However, it is such a rollercoaster. Some weeks .125 seems to work. Other weeks I get weepy and fatigued on days that aren't A.I days. It's starting to become apparent that I am going to be constantly trying to find the right amount of A.I to use and that it may vary from time to time. I do not want to do that for the rest of my life. I have read many accounts on here about users lowering estradiol with daily injections. I have even beed advised to switch to that in order to try and get rid of the AI. I admit I did not want to inject everyday because I am young and simply did not want to commit to so many injections. I realize now I was being lazy and I would rather at least exhaust that option before committing to possible AI use for the rest of my life and this constant up and down.

My question is this, how do I transition? My next shot of test would be on thursday night. Do I just start the daily dose that day? also how do I taper my AI usage so I don't see estradiol rebound?

Should I wait for bloodwork to see where estradiol is before switching? Normally I wouldn't make any changes without bloods but in this case since I want to drop to A.I it doesn't seem as important.

 

[Systemlord]

I would start out at 12mg daily and no AI tomorrow morning. You will feel better on a daily protocol as estrogen will be lower.

Beware though there is sometimes an E2 rebound after stopping the AI, it's short lived.

 

[CoastWatcher]

Having been injecting in a daily basis for some years, 16mg every morning, I think you have every reason to be hopeful. It's always easy to add anastrozole if you need it - hopeful you will find you're doing well without it.

 

[johnjohnson]

Having been injecting in a daily basis for some years, 16mg every morning, I think you have every reason to be hopeful. It's always easy to add anastrozole if you need it - hopeful you will find you're doing well without it.

Your posts are one of the main reasons I am trying this after seeing what you achieved. What dose would you recommend? I was gonna go with 16 since thats 4mg more than what I do now when divided by 7 days. Also should I do as systemlord suggests and just drop AI? or should I taper it?

 

[CoastWatcher]

I would simply start the daily injections and, as Systemlord suggested, set the AI aside. You'll have serum variation as things settle, but why make this more complex than you need to? Climb on the daily bandwagon and measure things in four to six weeks. My doctor suggested 16mg (enanthate, I am a Canadian) because with the ester weight factored in it was close to a healthy man's daily dose. It has worked for me and, I believe Vince is injecting the same measure of cypionate. Give it a good-faith effort, be patient, and see how you feel in four to six weeks.

I wish you al the best. Keep us posted.

 

[Vince]

I agree with CoastWatcher, give 16 mg a try. That's what I eventually decided to use. I did try other doses, it seems that I have the most success with 16 mg testosterone cypionate daily.

 

[Vince]

Vince's new testosterone panel 1/21/2019

 

[Vince Carter]

I'll disagree with my good friends and not recommend that you make such a major change from E3.5D and go to daily.

I'd make a much smaller change and add a third AI dose. Or, reduce your Cyp dose just a little bit, say 50mg from 58.

I don't see the reason is basically starting over from scratch by blowing up your protocol as it is when you can make some small changes with it as it stands.

 

[Vince Carter]

I would simply start the daily injections and, as Systemlord suggested, set the AI aside. You'll have serum variation as things settle, but why make this more complex than you need to? Climb on the daily bandwagon and measure things in four to six weeks. My doctor suggested 16mg (enanthate, I am a Canadian) because with the ester weight factored in it was close to a healthy man's daily dose. It has worked for me and, I believe Vince is injecting the same measure of cypionate. Give it a good-faith effort, be patient, and see how you feel in four to six weeks.

I wish you al the best. Keep us posted.

I missed you @CoastWatcher

 

[johnjohnson]

I would simply start the daily injections and, as Systemlord suggested, set the AI aside. You'll have serum variation as things settle, but why make this more complex than you need to? Climb on the daily bandwagon and measure things in four to six weeks. My doctor suggested 16mg (enanthate, I am a Canadian) because with the ester weight factored in it was close to a healthy man's daily dose. It has worked for me and, I believe Vince is injecting the same measure of cypionate. Give it a good-faith effort, be patient, and see how you feel in four to six weeks.

I wish you al the best. Keep us posted.

Thanks for the advice, that’s what I will do. One last question. Every time I have ever changed my dose of test I feel hypogonadal. Did you have any of that when you switched to daily?

 

[johnjohnson]

I'll disagree with my good friends and not recommend that you make such a major change from E3.5D and go to daily.

I'd make a much smaller change and add a third AI dose. Or, reduce your Cyp dose just a little bit, say 50mg from 58.

I don't see the reason is basically starting over from scratch by blowing up your protocol as it is when you can make some small changes with it as it stands.

Vince I’ve tried lowering dose before, and I just realized I had a typo. I’m on 54mg twice a week. Lower than that had me feeling like shit.

Also since I started the AI some weeks I tried three doses a few times. Sometimes it helped, sometimes it didn’t. Using an AI was good, it helped me realize I do need lower estrogen. However, for me I just don’t want to always be wondering if I need more or not if I can get stable with daily injections. Also, if they don’t work out it isn’t hard to go right back to what I am doing now.

 

[johnjohnson]

I agree with CoastWatcher, give 16 mg a try. That's what I eventually decided to use. I did try other doses, it seems that I have the most success with 16 mg testosterone cypionate daily.

Thanks for your input Vince.

 

[CoastWatcher]

Thanks for the advice, that’s what I will do. One last question. Every time I have ever changed my dose of test I feel hypogonadal. Did you have any of that when you switched to daily?

Any change in protocol can open you to a roller-coaster of responses as a result of levels settling. It was no different for me when I adopted a daily injection schedule. Things felt unsettled, no question. Be patient...stay the course...all the cliches.

 

[CoastWatcher]

I'll disagree with my good friends and not recommend that you make such a major change from E3.5D and go to daily.

I'd make a much smaller change and add a third AI dose. Or, reduce your Cyp dose just a little bit, say 50mg from 58.

I don't see the reason is basically starting over from scratch by blowing up your protocol as it is when you can make some small changes with it as it stands.

This is NOT an unreasonable position to take. Like the advice Vince and I offered. While I am a daily injection success story, what Vince Carter suggests has the advantage of being a subtle change that may well pay off.

In the TRT world, success comes in various packages. Ain't nothing linear about this game. What is suggested here is a sensible step if the thought of a big change makes you uneasy.

 

[CoastWatcher]

I missed you @CoastWatcher

It's been a challenging five months. I'll message you.

 

[Vince]

It's been a challenging five months. I'll message you.

I miss you too CoastWatcher. We all missed you and happy that you're back.

 

[CoastWatcher]

I miss you too CoastWatcher. We all missed you and happy that you're back.

Thank you, Vince. It is good to be back. I'll message you.

 

[johnjohnson]

Any change in protocol can open you to a roller-coaster of responses as a result of levels settling. It was no different for me when I adopted a daily injection schedule. Things felt unsettled, no question. Be patient...stay the course...all the cliches.

Of course. Just wondered if daily injections "caught up" any faster. Had first 16mg injection today, will update thread after 4 or so weeks.

 

[Royal244]

Of course. Just wondered if daily injections "caught up" any faster. Had first 16mg injection today, will update thread after 4 or so weeks.

Don't get discouraged after 4 weeks if you'll feel bad. It might be too early. Give it at least 2 months before you decide what you will do next. I felt like shit when i was in my 4th week after i changed the dose.

 

[Vince]

Don't get discouraged after 4 weeks if you'll feel bad. It might be too early. Give it at least 2 months before you decide what you will do next. I felt like shit when i was in my 4th week after i changed the dose.

I agree. I will give a new protocol at least 12 weeks. It takes me that long to really feel the difference.