11 years of EXTREME tissue weakness - I need advice please

[Runto]

Hey, folks. In summary, I am 34yo (5ft9 & 132lbs /180cm & 60kg) and have been suffering for 11 years with extreme tissue weakness, super prone to injuries and no ability to heal. I am mostly house-bound. Years ago I tested low for DHEA, Progesterone, Estradiol, and high for SHBG. My total T was at the top of the range. I’ve never taken T or any juice. I have a bunch of different diagnoses...

Please advise me on what lab tests I need to run before I go to a doc to ask for TRT.

I am from eastern Europe.

Here are the lab tests that I have determined I need to do. Please add the ones you think I have missed.

Complete blood count with differential
Estradiol - sensitive
Testosterone (Total and Free)
PSA
DHEA-S
SHBG
LH
FSH
Prolactin
Progesterone
17-OH-Progesteronе (should I test this??)

LDL, HDL, Triglycerides

AST, ALT, GGT

Thyroid hormones

- Is it crucial to measure A1C, IGF1, Insulin and Glucose? It’s gonna get pretty expensive…


Also, the lab that I will use states on their website that in 2022 they started using HPLC-MS/ MS and ICP-MS

- Are these two methods both good enough?
- Should I ask them which of the lab tests is done by which method?
- I know that Nelson has said many times to look for LC-MS, but is that for ALL lab tests or just specific tests like Estradiol and Testosterone?

 

[t_spacemonkey]

outside of hormones. try a carnivore diet. 95% red meat. it made a huge difference for me.

 

[Guided_by_Voices]

I'm sure others will chime regarding lab tests, however when it comes to tissue integrity vitamin C and glycine/collagen are two big factors and something to start with. Scurvy is essentially a lack of tissue integrity. If you have access to peptides that stimulate Growth Hormone production (e.g. Ipamorelin) that is also something to try.

 

[FunkOdyssey]

Hey, folks. In summary, I am 34yo (5ft9 & 132lbs /180cm & 60kg) and have been suffering for 11 years with extreme tissue weakness, super prone to injuries and no ability to heal. I am mostly house-bound. Years ago I tested low for DHEA, Progesterone, Estradiol, and high for SHBG. My total T was at the top of the range. I’ve never taken T or any juice. I have a bunch of different diagnoses...

Please advise me on what lab tests I need to run before I go to a doc to ask for TRT.

I am from eastern Europe.

Here are the lab tests that I have determined I need to do. Please add the ones you think I have missed.

Complete blood count with differential
Estradiol - sensitive
Testosterone (Total and Free)
PSA
DHEA-S
SHBG
LH
FSH
Prolactin
Progesterone
17-OH-Progesteronе (should I test this??)

LDL, HDL, Triglycerides

AST, ALT, GGT

Thyroid hormones

- Is it crucial to measure A1C, IGF1, Insulin and Glucose? It’s gonna get pretty expensive…


Also, the lab that I will use states on their website that in 2022 they started using HPLC-MS/ MS and ICP-MS

- Are these two methods both good enough?
- Should I ask them which of the lab tests is done by which method?
- I know that Nelson has said many times to look for LC-MS, but is that for ALL lab tests or just specific tests like Estradiol and Testosterone?

I wouldn't test the 17-OH-Progesterone. I WOULD test A1C, insulin, glucose, and IGF-1. IGF-1 is particularly relevant if you are complaining you don't heal from injury. I would add ANA and hs-CRP to see if you have some autoimmunity or inflammation going on.

What is your diet like? I'm with spacemonkey on the carnivore / 95% red meat as a worthwhile experiment for anyone with mysterious health issues.

 

[Systemlord]

I am 34yo (5ft9 & 132lbs /180cm & 60kg) and have been suffering for 11 years with extreme tissue weakness, super prone to injuries and no ability to heal.

You should order a vitamin and mineral panel, including vitamin D, vitamin C and ferritin.

Is it crucial to measure A1C

It’s unlikely you have type 2 diabetes given that you’re 132 pounds, most type two diabetes cases are obese. Also, men with type 2 diabetes tend to have a low SHBG.

 

[Systemlord]

I'm with spacemonkey on the carnivore / 95% red meat as a worthwhile experiment for anyone with mysterious health issues.

^^^

 

[Runto]

I'm sure others will chime regarding lab tests, however when it comes to tissue integrity vitamin C and glycine/collagen are two big factors and something to start with. Scurvy is essentially a lack of tissue integrity. If you have access to peptides that stimulate Growth Hormone production (e.g. Ipamorelin) that is also something to try.

I have megadosed on Vit C many times. I've taken collagen and glycine, TMG also... no noticable effect.
I've done all kinds of therapies: LDN, ozone, sauna, detoxes, anti-parasitic protocols, GAPS diet, keto, all kinds of supploements, etc, etc....

There has been very small improvements so far... So, it's time for the T...
I have tried TB500 from Magnus Pharmaceuticals and didn't experience anything.

 

[Runto]

I wouldn't test the 17-OH-Progesterone. I WOULD test A1C, insulin, glucose, and IGF-1. IGF-1 is particularly relevant if you are complaining you don't heal from injury. I would add ANA and hs-CRP to see if you have some autoimmunity or inflammation going on.

What is your diet like? I'm with spacemonkey on the carnivore / 95% red meat as a worthwhile experiment for anyone with mysterious health issues.

I've tested ANA and hs-CRP - normal. There was some innovative urine South Korean test that I did, which showed I had super high free radical levels. It's not a standard test...

Diet - for the last 9 years - no sugar, no gluten, mostly animal products, not keto exactly. I do eat some fruits and veggies from time to time, but a lot of eggs and meat. + lots of supplements, so I am not deficient in vitamins or minerals.

 

[Runto]

You should order a vitamin and mineral panel, including vitamin D, vitamin C and ferritin.

It’s unlikely you have type 2 diabetes given that you’re 132 pounds, most type two diabetes cases are obese. Also, men with type 2 diabetes tend to have a low SHBG.

my previous tests of Insulin, A1C, glucose and Vit D were good.

 

[FunkOdyssey]

my previous tests of Insulin, A1C, glucose and Vit D were good.

Ok, based on your previous results you can probably skip these and the ANA and hs-CRP to save money. You do want IGF-1 though.

 

[Guided_by_Voices]

You might want to consider buying a consult with Chris Masterjohn at chrismasterjohnphd.com . It sounds like you have some sort of strange genetic issue going on and he specializes in figuring that type of thing out. I suspect there are genetic tests he will recommend and can help interpret. He is one of the true big brains (sometime too big) in the world of nutrition and medicine, and recently he has been stressing the importance of testing for rare conditions when something does not respond to typical remedies.

 

[Runto]

You might want to consider buying a consult with Chris Masterjohn at chrismasterjohnphd.com . It sounds like you have some sort of strange genetic issue going on and he specializes in figuring that type of thing out. I suspect there are genetic tests he will recommend and can help interpret. He is one of the true big brains (sometime too big) in the world of nutrition and medicine, and recently he has been stressing the importance of testing for rare conditions when something does not respond to typical remedies.

I followed him a few years ago. Thanks for reminding me about the Master. I might indeed arrange a consultation with him. I will try the TRT first, then Nandrolone if the TRT is not enough, then Masterjohn maybe...

 

[madman]

Hey, folks. In summary, I am 34yo (5ft9 & 132lbs /180cm & 60kg) and have been suffering for 11 years with extreme tissue weakness, super prone to injuries and no ability to heal. I am mostly house-bound. Years ago I tested low for DHEA, Progesterone, Estradiol, and high for SHBG. My total T was at the top of the range. I’ve never taken T or any juice. I have a bunch of different diagnoses...

Please advise me on what lab tests I need to run before I go to a doc to ask for TRT.

I am from eastern Europe.

Here are the lab tests that I have determined I need to do. Please add the ones you think I have missed.

Complete blood count with differential
Estradiol - sensitive
Testosterone (Total and Free)
PSA
DHEA-S
SHBG
LH
FSH
Prolactin
Progesterone
17-OH-Progesteronе (should I test this??)

LDL, HDL, Triglycerides

AST, ALT, GGT

Thyroid hormones

- Is it crucial to measure A1C, IGF1, Insulin and Glucose? It’s gonna get pretty expensive…


Also, the lab that I will use states on their website that in 2022 they started using HPLC-MS/ MS and ICP-MS

- Are these two methods both good enough?
- Should I ask them which of the lab tests is done by which method?
- I know that Nelson has said many times to look for LC-MS, but is that for ALL lab tests or just specific tests like Estradiol and Testosterone?

You need more recent labs.

Need to know where you sit as of now.

Always use the most accurate assays TT, estradiol, and DHT (LC/MS-MS), and FT (Equilibrium Dialysis or Ultrafiltration).

When testing testosterone (TT, FT, and BAT) blood work needs to be done in the early AM in a fasted state as we want to test at the peak.

Keep in mind that although TT is important to know FT is what truly matters as it is the active fraction of testosterone responsible for the positive effects.

Critical to use the most accurate assays when testing FT (Equilibrium Dialysis or Ultrafiltration), especially in cases of altered SHBG.

If you do not have access to such then you will need to use/rely upon the linear law-of-mass action cFTV.

Knowing where your SHBG sits is critical too as some men can have not-so-stellar TT levels but still have a decent FT level due to low/lowish SHBG or can have what appears to be normal TT levels but low/low-normal FT due to highish/high SHBG.

When testing testosterone (TT, FT, and BAT) blood work needs to be done in the early AM in a fasted state as we want to test at the peak.

Should get a thorough set of labs to rule out low testosterone let alone any dysfunction thyroid/adrenals.

Blood work should be done for TT, FT, estradiol, SHBG, DHT, prolactin, Vit D DHEA-S, LH/FSH, PSA, full thyroid panel (TSH, Free T3, Free T4, Reverse T3, antibodies), salivary cortisol (Four Specimens), lipids, CMP, CBC, and CRP.

In your case, you can test IGF-1.

At the very least you should have TT, FT, estradiol, SHBG, LH/FSH, full thyroid panel, and cortisol done.

 

[madman]

I followed him a few years ago. Thanks for reminding me about the Master. I might indeed arrange a consultation with him. I will try the TRT first, then Nandrolone if the TRT is not enough, then Masterjohn maybe...

*Hey, folks. In summary, I am 34yo (5ft9 & 132lbs /180cm & 60kg) and have been suffering for 11 years with extreme tissue weakness, super prone to injuries and no ability to heal.
* I will try the TRT first, then Nandrolone if the TRT is not enough,


Would not get too ahead of yourself here as you have not even had any recent labs done let alone never even mentioned experiencing any symptoms of low-t other than your poor recovery which may have nothing to do with low testosterone.

Hate to burst your bubble here but ND is not the magical elixir some make it out to be.

Having healthy FT levels can do wonders when it comes to gaining muscle/strength and enhancing recovery.

Where ND truly shines is in providing relief/improvement of bone/joint pain let alone being less androgenic than T which can help minimize/prevent cosmetic side effects in the genetically prone.

Highly doubtful you would ever need to jump on the ND bandwagon unless you are truly suffering from bone/joint pain.

Then it may be worth looking into.

 

[Runto]

*Hey, folks. In summary, I am 34yo (5ft9 & 132lbs /180cm & 60kg) and have been suffering for 11 years with extreme tissue weakness, super prone to injuries and no ability to heal.
* I will try the TRT first, then Nandrolone if the TRT is not enough,


Would not get too ahead of yourself here as you have not even had any recent labs done let alone never even mentioned experiencing any symptoms of low-t other than your poor recovery which may have nothing to do with low testosterone.

Hate to burst your bubble here but ND is not the magical elixir some make it out to be.

Having healthy FT levels can do wonders when it comes to gaining muscle/strength and enhancing recovery.

Where ND truly shines is in providing relief/improvement of bone/joint pain let alone being less androgenic than T which can help minimize/prevent cosmetic side effects in the genetically prone.

Highly doubtful you would ever need to jump on the ND bandwagon unless you are truly suffering from bone/joint pain.

Then it may be worth looking into.

thanks for the extensive replies, madman, I appreciate it!

well, as I said, all tissue is really weak and disfunctional and painful, including joints, connective tissue, ligaments..., so that's why I will be considering adding Nandrolone, but time will tell... I will be doing the tests probably early next week.

 

[Olddragger]

Weighting in here. These symptoms have being occurring since you were 23 years old? That brings up the question of what happened at that time? What was life like before then? Do you have any medical diagnosis such as lupus or taking any prescribed medications or herbals/supplements? The body/mind is extremely complex and everything in your life can have a personnel effect on how you feel. I don’t mean to pry…just trying to understand the best I can.

The people here can certainly give to some excellent information and guidance concerning TRT etc but it sounds like there may be more going on? I totally get it about doctors not having the time/interest in trying to solve the problem but, have you seen an endocrinologist? Especially one that is part of a teaching facility. In my experience they do take time. Good luck, and I am sorry you have been going through this …it really sucks and has to be frustrating.

 

[Runto]

I just found by a mere chance these old tests. I never knew I tested FT and IGF-1 years ago. This is from 2018.

My Total T was tested in 2012 and it was at the top of the range - 887 ng/dl

When you add to this the other tests from 2012 (and other years):
- low DHEA
- Estradiol - 12 pg/ml (7.6 - 43)
- Progesterone - 0.6 nmol/L - (0.7 - 4.3)
- FSH 5.52 mlU/mL (1.6 - 8.0)

What is the interpretation?

I will do new tests in a few days, but still, I am curious to find out what you think?

 

[Runto]

Weighting in here. These symptoms have being occurring since you were 23 years old? That brings up the question of what happened at that time? What was life like before then? Do you have any medical diagnosis such as lupus or taking any prescribed medications or herbals/supplements? The body/mind is extremely complex and everything in your life can have a personnel effect on how you feel. I don’t mean to pry…just trying to understand the best I can.

The people here can certainly give to some excellent information and guidance concerning TRT etc but it sounds like there may be more going on? I totally get it about doctors not having the time/interest in trying to solve the problem but, have you seen an endocrinologist? Especially one that is part of a teaching facility. In my experience they do take time. Good luck, and I am sorry you have been going through this …it really sucks and has to be frustrating.

Thanks for the concern and trying to help. Yes, I've seen many experts, including numerous endocrinologists. Basically, going to docs always leads to dead end. I have done so many different tests - most negative.

But I have tests that confirm I have:
- Disautonomia
- Sympathetic hyperactivity of the nervous system
- POTS
- Raynaud's syndrome
- Hypothyroidism
- High Noradrenaline (Neurospot urine test)
- High dopamine

and maybe a few other stuff I can't remember right now.

I don't take medications other than T3 and T4. Only supplements and I do ozone therapies at home from time to time.