Ready to try TRT again (my new protocol)... your thoughts on Round 2?

[canada]

Gentleman, for your thoughts and consideration...

Former protocol (Round 1):

T-cyp 150mg/weekly (IM inj in thigh - 23G 1"), no HCG, no AI

First of all, I knew nothing about TRT when I first started back in May 2015. I had moved my T levels increase marginally from mid-200's to 433 by September 2015. I was frustrated, feeling lousy, and I quit.

After stopping TRT cold turkey in September, and after 4 months of reading and research (and feeling pretty shitty along the way), I have decided to go back to either 2x/week or e3d injections, along with some low doses of HCG to keep my boys in check. I have come to this conclusion as I believe that my issues were primarily due to a low SHBG (20 nmol/L), and no HCG protocol.


New protocol:

Option #1 - T-cyp 50mg/e3d, 167IU HCGe3d, no AI
Option #2 - T-cyp 75mg/2xweek, 250 HCG 2xweek, no AI

Some side notes:

- I would really like to move to subq injections under the new protocol.

- I am also strongly considering Nelson's method and believe that either of the above options would work. I am leaning towards option #1 at this point.

- I am trying to avoid an AI until needed. My next round of BW is in 6 weeks. My last BW came back with estradiol: 90 pmol/L or 25pg/ml

Any thoughts? Comments? Suggestions?

Thanks in advance.

 

[Vince Carter]

Most of us low SHBG guys absolutely do better on EOD injections. I'd choose option 1 but make it EOD. I use 50mg EOD, 500iu HCG 2x week, and no AI.

 

[Vince]

I agree with Vince, you can always move up to high levels of Testosterone cypionate. I personally do not like Sub-Q injections. For me the shoulders are the best to inject in.

 

[CoastWatcher]

A point that can't be stressed enough: as a Canadian, I know that the sensitive estradiol assay is not available outside of hospitals. The standard test is of little p, or any value, to men. It is likely that your E2 level is lower than what was reported, one of the problems associated with TRT protocols outside the U.S. I keep on top of estradiol levels by traveling to the States on a quarterly basis and rely on Discountedlabs.com. If that is not an option for you, be very, very wary about adding an AI.

All the best.

 

[canada]

Most of us low SHBG guys absolutely do better on EOD injections. I'd choose option 1 but make it EOD. I use 50mg EOD, 500iu HCG 2x week, and no AI.

Thanks for your input. In regards to your response... What is your injection method for eod injections? IM? Subq?

 

[canada]

I agree with Vince, you can always move up to high levels of Testosterone cypionate. I personally do not like Sub-Q injections. For me the shoulders are the best to inject in.

Vince - are you on hcg as well? If so, are you following Nelsons method?

 

[Vince]

Vince - are you on hcg as well? If so, are you following Nelsons method?

Yes, I follow Nelson's protocol, I also use HCG.

 

[Vince]

I use 80mg of testosterone cypionate and 500iu of hcg every 3 1/2 days - no AI


testosterone, serum 1059ng/dl 348-1197
free testosterone direct 28.9 pg/mL 6.6-18.1
dhea-sulate 214.9 ug/dL 48.9-344.2
estradiol, seneitive 27.3 pg/mL 8.0-35.0

 

[Henry]

I use 80mg of testosterone cypionate and 500iu of hcg every 3 1/2 days - no AI


testosterone, serum 1059ng/dl 348-1197
free testosterone direct 28.9 pg/mL 6.6-18.1
dhea-sulate 214.9 ug/dL 48.9-344.2
estradiol, seneitive 27.3 pg/mL 8.0-35.0

Wow, those are great numbers.

 

[ERO]

The key is going to be picking one of the protocols and then staying on it - changing nothing - for at least 4 weeks and then testing again.

Low SHBG makes TRT harder - I know, because I have low SHBG and I have been on TRT for 5 years now. That said, you are going to feel a lot better than you do now after quitting TRT cold turkey. (By the way - never do that again, there are HPTA re-start protocols that need to be followed if one is serous about stopping TRT)

 

[Vince Carter]

Thanks for your input. In regards to your response... What is your injection method for eod injections? IM? Subq?

I consider what I do shallow IM, I think I got it from Nelson but I use a 29g 1/2 in the upper outer thigh. I don't worry about subQ and IM, I just stick it and go. When I started this I had lots of complications with TCyp in the belly area, red lumps, itch, burning, just not compatible but once I went to the upper/outer thigh i have no site reactions like the belly.

 

[canada]

The key is going to be picking one of the protocols and then staying on it - changing nothing - for at least 4 weeks and then testing again.

Low SHBG makes TRT harder - I know, because I have low SHBG and I have been on TRT for 5 years now. That said, you are going to feel a lot better than you do now after quitting TRT cold turkey. (By the way - never do that again, there are HPTA re-start protocols that need to be followed if one is serous about stopping TRT)

Thanks for responding ERO. I have followed some of your threads very closely, as it seems as though I have had similar experiences as yours - especially in regards to the challenges of low SHBG.

That being said, can I ask if you are on EOD injections? And do you use HCG as well?

 

[canada]

I consider what I do shallow IM, I think I got it from Nelson but I use a 29g 1/2 in the upper outer thigh. I don't worry about subQ and IM, I just stick it and go. When I started this I had lots of complications with TCyp in the belly area, red lumps, itch, burning, just not compatible but once I went to the upper/outer thigh i have no site reactions like the belly.

I am doubtful on subq injections in my stomach as the best option. I still feel that IM or shallow IM (similar to what you are doing) will be best for me.

I see that you posted you inject 50mg EOD, 500iu HCG 2x week, and no AI.

In regards to your HCG... have you ever tried, or considered, taking HCG EOD - to align all of your HCG injections at the same time as your test injections?

Currently, when you do take your HCG 2x week, do you time it to combine the HCG with your test (Nelson's protocol)?

Thanks in advance.

 

[Vince Carter]

I've done it all with HCG...250 EOD, 100D, 400 EOD, 500 2XW, 750(ish) 2XW...i've settled on 500 2XW for now. The one time I did Cyp and HCG, simultaneously, I had (likely) Estrogen spike that was not pleasant and I've never done it again. Over time I'm sensitive to Estrogen, like a high(er) estrogen count.
HCG use seems to have 50 answers to 50 men asked.

 

[canada]

The one time I did Cyp and HCG, simultaneously, I had (likely) Estrogen spike that was not pleasant and I've never done it again.

Do you attribute your estrogen spikes primarily to a low SHBG?

 

[Vince Carter]

I understand it as low SHBG, that translates to high Free T, implies Estrogen is unbound in the same way. Usually E2 management for low SHBG guys is the rough space, the reason EOD (or daily) can be a positive thing in not having excess T converted.

 

[canada]

I understand it as low SHBG, that translates to high Free T, implies Estrogen is unbound in the same way. Usually E2 management for low SHBG guys is the rough space, the reason EOD (or daily) can be a positive thing in not having excess T converted.

Thanks again. I really appreciate your input. So then in your case of injecting EOD, can I ask when you time your HCG throughout your week (2x week) to avoid that spike? Do you take your HCG subq? Or IM?