Thoughts on new protocol

[cja]

Would like to get some thoughts/opinions on my new protocol. I will start by listing previous protocol and the labs from latest blood work. I felt pretty good here, injections were e3.5d, I wanted to move to a Mon-Wed-Fri injections rather than raise my AI as E2 was slightly high.

Test CYP 70mg e3.5d
HCG 400ui e3.5d
AI .22 mg Mon-Wed-Fri
DHEA 25mg nightly

on this my blood work was...

Total T 840 348-1197 ng/dL
Free T 18 6.8-21.5 pg/mL
Estradiol Sensitive 35.5 8.0-35.0 pg/mL
SHBG 26.9 16.5-55.9 nmol/L

new protocol is...

Test CYP 48mg on Mon-Wed-Fri
HCG 300ui on Mon-Wed-Fri
AI .22mg on Mon-Wed-Fri
DHEA 25 mg nightly
DIM 100mg daily (have not started this yet)


My worries are...
Every time I see someone going to a more freq injection the total mg of Testosterone taken weekly seems to decrease. In my case I will be adding 4mg per week. My goal of the move was to take less Test CYP more often in hopes of reducing my AI. I am a converter, no denying that. But if at all possible I would not like to increase the AI. Anyway, just wanted to get some thoughts on the new protocol. I started it this morning, all but the DIM as I do not have any yet.

 

[Vince]

Your old protocol you injected 70mg twice a week? Now 24mg three times a week?

 

[cja]

48 mg 3 times a week. its 24 on the syringe, nice catch. thanks, editing now

 

[Vince]

You could try daily injections. Since I starting doing daily injections of testosterone, I'm really surprised how easy it is. I would have never considered it except for Coast Watcher good results.

 

[cja]

I actually wanted to switch to a daily injection. Been following the few threads here that pertain to daily and like the results I've read. The only reason I didnt try to go that route is I am still fairly new at Defy, this was my first 6 month review. Depending on how the 3 times per week goes, I may schedule a 3 month with Dr. Saya. I have yet to have an appt with him, did my original consult with Melissa (she was great IMO). I guess the reasoning for not lowering my Test/HCG dose is I still have wiggle room to bring Total and Free T up a bit. I only hope my E doesn't rise along with it, not a fan of AI but have accepted I do need it.

 

[Vince]

Personally I don't think your estradiol levels are too high. Like you stated you wiggle room and you may feel even better at higher T levels. My last consultation was with Melissa, I agree she's top notch.

 

[JMP]

cja, I am on an identical protocol as your new one minus the ai and dim. The first thing I noticed is no one asked how you feel on your current (previous) protocol. And also whether you were having E2 side effects or just a moderately high number. Now I first want to say that many guys on here have years of experience w/trt vs my weeks of experience. I have however done extensive research and reading on this site and others. Bottom line if my trough reading was 840 and E2 35 and was feeling great, I would change nothing. I see so many people on this site tweaking the protocol unnecessarily to reach some golden plateau. If you feel great (or good) on 2x/wk why consider daily? IMHO, why put so many holes on yourself if it isn't necessary? I am also a person who believes that once you find something you like, stick with it instead of "the grass is always greener" type of thinking. My wife has always liked that about me...lol! With that said, it is an individual decision so I hope that tinkering with your protocol brings you the results that you desire. I think that is what we all want for each other here on excel.

 

[johndoesmith]

cja, I am on an identical protocol as your new one minus the ai and dim. The first thing I noticed is no one asked how you feel on your current (previous) protocol. And also whether you were having E2 side effects or just a moderately high number. Now I first want to say that many guys on here have years of experience w/trt vs my weeks of experience. I have however done extensive research and reading on this site and others. Bottom line if my trough reading was 840 and E2 35 and was feeling great, I would change nothing. I see so many people on this site tweaking the protocol unnecessarily to reach some golden plateau. If you feel great (or good) on 2x/wk why consider daily? IMHO, why put so many holes on yourself if it isn't necessary? I am also a person who believes that once you find something you like, stick with it instead of "the grass is always greener" type of thinking. My wife has always liked that about me...lol! With that said, it is an individual decision so I hope that tinkering with your protocol brings you the results that you desire. I think that is what we all want for each other here on excel.

We need more people like you here, I completely agree with everything you just said.

There was not a single mention of symptoms, feelings, or anything subjective other than pure numerical concern.

Numbers are just numbers. I honestly am starting to think that hypogonadism does something to the mind that distorts thinking, even after it is corrected that causes people to needlessly obsess over numbers or this ester vs that ester.

I don't know of any other patient population that is constantly thinking about their medication as much as TRT guys. Seriously. I take other medications but I don't even think about them except for "it's time to take X medication".

 

[cja]

cja, I am on an identical protocol as your new one minus the ai and dim. The first thing I noticed is no one asked how you feel on your current (previous) protocol. And also whether you were having E2 side effects or just a moderately high number. Now I first want to say that many guys on here have years of experience w/trt vs my weeks of experience. I have however done extensive research and reading on this site and others. Bottom line if my trough reading was 840 and E2 35 and was feeling great, I would change nothing. I see so many people on this site tweaking the protocol unnecessarily to reach some golden plateau. If you feel great (or good) on 2x/wk why consider daily? IMHO, why put so many holes on yourself if it isn't necessary? I am also a person who believes that once you find something you like, stick with it instead of "the grass is always greener" type of thinking. My wife has always liked that about me...lol! With that said, it is an individual decision so I hope that tinkering with your protocol brings you the results that you desire. I think that is what we all want for each other here on excel.

I feel OK, libido could be better, it seems to come and go when ever it pleases. I do have what I feel are some E2 sides, water retention, mild acne in chest area, can have mood swings. Being where I was pre TRT, I feel amazing! I am trying to lower E2 just a bit, and by doing more freq injections this is possible. Personally I'd rather not increase the AI in order to do this, in fact if I knew daily injections would allow me to come off the AI I'd be all over it. The only real question I have/had is the fact that everyone I seen go to more freq injections, the T does is decreased instead of just splitting into thirds.

 

[Vince Carter]

Wanting to reduce his AI dependence is a valid reason for change.

 

[lowe2sucks]

dude your e2 is not high relax and continue with protocol if you FEEL GOOD.. never change the winning formula.. if it was 50+pg/ml then yeah I would think of moving to more frequent shots maybe but yours isn't high.. why would you poke yourself more often just for better number on bloodwork? if you feel good already..
ive noticed too that more frequent injections result in less dosage needed for same total T levels.. so make sure you go to high on T after you switch to 3 injections per week

 

[JMP]

cja, thanks for clarifying. I agree with you that it is better to change the protocol in order to reduce dependence or dosage of one of the elements (drugs/hormones) rather than adding more. I will have my follow up at Defy in two months and my first blood work while on trt. I have already decided that if I end up with high E2 with side effects that I will choose to first eliminate DHEA, see how that goes, and then if necessary HCG as an experiment before adding an AI. I refuse to add a fourth drug to solve a problem before removing something. To me adding just makes things more complicated. In other words simplify before you complicate. I know quite a few have mitigated E2 sides by going to more frequent injections so I hope that it works for you.

 

[Vince Carter]

cja, thanks for clarifying. I agree with you that it is better to change the protocol in order to reduce dependence or dosage of one of the elements (drugs/hormones) rather than adding more. I will have my follow up at Defy in two months and my first blood work while on trt. I have already decided that if I end up with high E2 with side effects that I will choose to first eliminate DHEA, see how that goes, and then if necessary HCG as an experiment before adding an AI. I refuse to add a fourth drug to solve a problem before removing something. To me adding just makes things more complicated. In other words simplify before you complicate. I know quite a few have mitigated E2 sides by going to more frequent injections so I hope that it works for you.

That was exactly how I approached my E problem...dropped, DHEA, dropped Preg, Dropped HCG, testing at each point and never found a reason for the overactive aromatase and had to go with Anastrozole....I was ruinning 50/60/70 as high as 88 on the sensitive test and was soooooo PMS'ish, hot and sweaty in bed, it wasn't a great time for me.