Which clinics prescribe propionate?

[busydad]

I'm currently using Maximus oral-t, and I haven't really felt any benefit after 3-months of use. I'd like to try the Test Prop, mostly because I'm concerned about E2 levels as I am a high aromatizer, and I don't want to be on an AI.

 

[SS1LE]

I'm currently using Maximus oral-t, and I haven't really felt any benefit after 3-months of use. I'd like to try the Test Prop, mostly because I'm concerned about E2 levels as I am a high aromatizer, and I don't want to be on an AI.

What are your levels? Why do think prop is going to solve your issues?

 

[Nelson Vergel]

Some info in these two pages: Testosterone Propionate Discontinued by all pharmacies - Excel Male Health Forum

 

[Cataceous]

I'm currently using Maximus oral-t, and I haven't really felt any benefit after 3-months of use. I'd like to try the Test Prop, mostly because I'm concerned about E2 levels as I am a high aromatizer, and I don't want to be on an AI.

The lab work you posted earlier and the lack of improvements from oral testosterone are suggesting that low testosterone is not your problem. It's not impossible that your elevated E2/T ratio is contributing to issues. If you can lose more weight then that is the preferred way to reduce the ratio. Otherwise you might as well test the hypothesis with a short trial of AI use. The main thing is to go into it knowing how potent these drugs are; it is very easy to crash estradiol. For example, with anastrozole a cautious approach is to start with 20 µg daily or 40 µg EOD. Self-compounding is pretty simple because you can dissolve anastrozole in ethanol—e.g. vodka—and dose by volume.

 

[t_spacemonkey]

none! reason I went UGL. because Tprop gave me by far best results.

 

[busydad]

These are my labs from September before starting the Oral-TRT. This is very similar to what my labs have always looked like. I have had "some" benefit from the Oral-TRT. I no longer have a midafternoon crash, and I've started to have morning erections again which I haven't had for years. I guess I expected my libido to come back, and to actually feel a difference in focus, etc. I'm 5' 11" and about 220 lbs. I'd like to lose another 15-20 lbs, but I don't believe that would really help my E2 much, as I've lost about 60 lbs. over the past 3 years and my E2 has barely budged.

 

[Cataceous]

I'm currently using Maximus oral-t, and I haven't really felt any benefit after 3-months of use. ...

... I have had "some" benefit from the Oral-TRT. I no longer have a midafternoon crash, and I've started to have morning erections again which I haven't had for years. I guess I expected my libido to come back, and to actually feel a difference in focus, etc.

It's challenging to give advice while the story is shifting. The return of morning erections is significant and suggests you should continue with the oral testosterone. You're unlikely to do much better with propionate, although you might enjoy a short-lived honeymoon period. With respect to mitigating the effects of high estradiol, oral testosterone substantially boosts DHT, which reduces estrogenic activity. You should also try to avoid more-is-better thinking. Necessary levels of testosterone for good sexual function are not all that high. Libido is very complex, and involves a lot more than testosterone. A modest level of testosterone is necessary, but not sufficient for good libido. In some cases too much testosterone is actually detrimental to libido, likely due to negative effects on other hormones and neurotransmitters. A lack of focus is even more nebulous, and may have little to do with testosterone.

 

[busydad]

It's challenging to give advice while the story is shifting. The return of morning erections is significant and suggests you should continue with the oral testosterone. You're unlikely to do much better with propionate, although you might enjoy a short-lived honeymoon period. With respect to mitigating the effects of high estradiol, oral testosterone substantially boosts DHT, which reduces estrogenic activity. You should also try to avoid more-is-better thinking. Necessary levels of testosterone for good sexual function are not all that high. Libido is very complex, and involves a lot more than testosterone. A modest level of testosterone is necessary, but not sufficient for good libido. In some cases too much testosterone is actually detrimental to libido, likely due to negative effects on other hormones and neurotransmitters. A lack of focus is even more nebulous, and may have little to do with testosterone.

I should have been clearer in my first post. I guess I expected more, especially when you read stories of folks feeling a night and day difference.

 

[Cataceous]

I should have been clearer in my first post. I guess I expected more, especially when you read stories of folks feeling a night and day difference.

@madman has some excellent posts explaining the mechanics of honeymoon periods. When you read men's accounts of these periods you might think TRT is a panacea. The problem is that often the post-honeymoon let-downs are reported in different threads, so you might miss the reality of TRT. The experience also depends on the severity of your hypogonadism. If it's bad then you might be pretty happy with TRT in spite of the occasionally rocky road. However, if you were borderline then the tradeoffs may not seem to be worth it.

Has anyone at Maximus suggested trying some enclomiphene with your oral testosterone? I ask because they have demonstrated that one can achieve HPTA activation under these circumstances. This is intriguing, because I think some of the problems associated with TRT are related to the loss of hormones seen in HPTA shutdown. The drawbacks to enclomiphene are in the lack of long-term experience with this drug and the potential for blocking off-target estrogen receptors. However, you seem to have prodigious estrogenic activity, so you might even benefit from a modest reduction therein. If you go this route then I would encourage a low-and-slow approach to dosing.