Nandrolone Experiences

[Cataceous]

Simplistic view, maybe, but it looks to me when on T:N just add some DHT(Proviron, Masteron) to the mix to keep the brain and dick stimulated.

This begs the question: Are DHT-based steroids metabolized into useful neurosteroids the way DHT is?

 

[Rock H. Johnson]

Why would a DHT derivative be needed to stimulate the brain and dick while on T and N already? What’s missing on a T and N combo?

In this body that would be DHT as it is not a good 5AR converter and to keep the DHN of the AR in the brain and penile tissue.

 

[Rock H. Johnson]

This begs the question: Are DHT-based steroids metabolized into useful neurosteroids the way DHT is?

Again as for this body it is, as from experience adding 12.5mg Mesterelone or now 9mg Drostonelone Enantate a day I feel calmer more centered and at the same time a bit more go getter while being horney.

 

[Loki]

Simplistic view, maybe, but it looks to me when on T:N just add some DHT(Proviron, Masteron) to the mix to keep the brain and dick stimulated.

Or some T cream on the balls... Makes a massive difference...

 

[Rock H. Johnson]

DHN basically narrows the veins in the penis. As DHT has a higher AR binding affinity then DHN, I will keep my DHT derivatives while adding the Nandrolone.
Different binding of testosterone, 19-nortestosterone and their 5 alpha-reduced derivatives to the androgen receptor of the rat seminal vesicle: a st... - PubMed - NCBI
Nandrolone in general is known for arterial narrowing and vasoconstriction as a side effect. I do not know about the science but this is often anecdotal from users.

 

[Gman86]

DHN basically narrows the veins in the penis. As DHT has a higher AR binding affinity then DHN, I will keep my DHT derivatives while adding the Nandrolone.
Different binding of testosterone, 19-nortestosterone and their 5 alpha-reduced derivatives to the androgen receptor of the rat seminal vesicle: a st... - PubMed - NCBI
Nandrolone in general is known for arterial narrowing and vasoconstriction as a side effect. I do not know about the science but this is often anecdotal from users.

Where have you heard that DHN narrows the veins in the penis? Just read that study, and I didn’t see that anywhere.

If DHN narrowed the veins in the penis, wouldn’t that result in men having issues getting erections, when using nandrolone long term? I’ve been talking to two guys that have used deca for at least 1.5 years straight, that have no issues. One of them reports the best sexual function he’s every experienced on HRT. Before using 300mg if deca, 500iu’s of HCG, and 40mg of test per week, he was using 160mg of test per week for a year. He said libido and sexual function is much improved over testosterone alone. The anabolic doc on YouTube just posted a case study of a guy that has been using deca for 20 years straight, and doesn’t have any sexual issues. There’s also studies done on HIV patients using nandrolone for years and years, and not one of the studies reports any sexual dysfunction, as far as I’m aware.

Even if a study did show that nandrolone narrowed the veins in the penis, you would have to wonder if it was a primary effect from the nandrolone itself, or a secondary effect from nandrolone resulting in extremely low levels of E2

 

[Rock H. Johnson]

Where have you heard that DHN narrows the veins in the penis? Just read that study, and I didn’t see that anywhere.

If DHN narrowed the veins in the penis, wouldn’t that result in men having issues getting erections, when using nandrolone long term? I’ve been talking to two guys that have used deca for at least 1.5 years straight, that have no issues. One of them reports the best sexual function he’s every experienced on HRT. Before using 300mg if deca, 500iu’s of HCG, and 40mg of test per week, he was using 160mg of test per week for a year. He said libido and sexual function is much improved over testosterone alone. The anabolic doc on YouTube just posted a case study of a guy that has been using deca for 20 years straight, and doesn’t have any sexual issues. There’s also studies done on HIV patients using nandrolone for years and years, and not one of the studies reports any sexual dysfunction, as far as I’m aware.

Even if a study did show that nandrolone narrowed the veins in the penis, you would have to wonder if it was a primary effect from the nandrolone itself, or a secondary effect from nandrolone resulting in extremely low levels of E2

The study is about binding affinity, thats why I placed it after the statement that DHT has a higher AR binding affinity then DHN.

If DHN narrowed the veins in the penis, wouldn’t that result in men having issues getting erections? Huh? I thought this was about DECA-Dick? (Did I post in the wrong thread?....lol)
At the end I state:
Nandrolone in general is known for arterial narrowing and vasoconstriction as a side effect. I do not know about the science but this is often anecdotal from users. There is a study on rabbits:
Enhanced vasoconstriction and reduced vasorelaxation induced by testosterone and nandrolone in hypercholesterolemic rabbits - ScienceDirectBut then it where rabbits with high cholestrol and showed the AAS where harmful to their vascular system.
There is a large group of people who prefer to read hundreds of anecdotal experiences from other users and base their decision on that then ever reading one scientific paper. If there is any scientific research on it. Especially in the AAS/PED world. DECA-Dick happens and although anecdotal, it is a risk.

 

[DS3]

This begs the question: Are DHT-based steroids metabolized into useful neurosteroids the way DHT is?

Proviron has definitive 'masculinizing' and aggression-inducing characteristics in terms of CNS effects.

 

[DS3]

Where have you heard that DHN narrows the veins in the penis? Just read that study, and I didn’t see that anywhere.

If DHN narrowed the veins in the penis, wouldn’t that result in men having issues getting erections, when using nandrolone long term? I’ve been talking to two guys that have used deca for at least 1.5 years straight, that have no issues. One of them reports the best sexual function he’s every experienced on HRT. Before using 300mg if deca, 500iu’s of HCG, and 40mg of test per week, he was using 160mg of test per week for a year. He said libido and sexual function is much improved over testosterone alone. The anabolic doc on YouTube just posted a case study of a guy that has been using deca for 20 years straight, and doesn’t have any sexual issues. There’s also studies done on HIV patients using nandrolone for years and years, and not one of the studies reports any sexual dysfunction, as far as I’m aware.

Even if a study did show that nandrolone narrowed the veins in the penis, you would have to wonder if it was a primary effect from the nandrolone itself, or a secondary effect from nandrolone resulting in extremely low levels of E2

And then you have people who take nandrolone for a couple of weeks and experience significant ED. There is no definitive science on nandrolone regarding deca-dick or using it as a base to TRT. This conversation really seems to be turning into more bro-knowledge than anything.

 

[DS3]

The study is about binding affinity, thats why I placed it after the statement that DHT has a higher AR binding affinity then DHN.

If DHN narrowed the veins in the penis, wouldn’t that result in men having issues getting erections? Huh? I thought this was about DECA-Dick? (Did I post in the wrong thread?....lol)
At the end I state:
Nandrolone in general is known for arterial narrowing and vasoconstriction as a side effect. I do not know about the science but this is often anecdotal from users. There is a study on rabbits:
Enhanced vasoconstriction and reduced vasorelaxation induced by testosterone and nandrolone in hypercholesterolemic rabbits - ScienceDirectBut then it where rabbits with high cholestrol and showed the AAS where harmful to their vascular system.
There is a large group of people who prefer to read hundreds of anecdotal experiences from other users and base their decision on that then ever reading one scientific paper. If there is any scientific research on it. Especially in the AAS/PED world. DECA-Dick happens and although anecdotal, it is a risk.

Deca-dick does happen in some men. There is no definitive science as to why it happens either. Thoughts have been proposed by doctors such as the anabolic doc, and anecdotal stories have been proposed as evidence for the protagonistic and antagonistic sides of the argument, but no conclusive evidence exists (not even close).

I have heard men say that when running nandrolone by itself, they simply feel less 'manly' than running testosterone. Lacking mental clarity, lacking drive and motivation, lacking all the subjective feelings of being 'manly'. Perhaps it is simply that nandrolone is significantly less androgenic than testosterone and that this produces ED in some men (when used alone or in conjunction with TRT). Perhaps it has nothing to do with the E2 receptor or prolactin receptor sensitization, increased conversion of E1 to E2, or anything like that. Perhaps it is as simple as nandrolone being more of a feminine drug. Perhaps not. @Gman86 @Cataceous

 

[Gman86]

The study is about binding affinity, thats why I placed it after the statement that DHT has a higher AR binding affinity then DHN.

If DHN narrowed the veins in the penis, wouldn’t that result in men having issues getting erections? Huh? I thought this was about DECA-Dick? (Did I post in the wrong thread?....lol)
At the end I state:
Nandrolone in general is known for arterial narrowing and vasoconstriction as a side effect. I do not know about the science but this is often anecdotal from users. There is a study on rabbits:
Enhanced vasoconstriction and reduced vasorelaxation induced by testosterone and nandrolone in hypercholesterolemic rabbits - ScienceDirectBut then it where rabbits with high cholestrol and showed the AAS where harmful to their vascular system.
There is a large group of people who prefer to read hundreds of anecdotal experiences from other users and base their decision on that then ever reading one scientific paper. If there is any scientific research on it. Especially in the AAS/PED world. DECA-Dick happens and although anecdotal, it is a risk.

The study you just posted is showing that testosterone and nandrolone both have the same vasoconstriction effects. I’m still not seeing anything that shows nandrolone causes narrowing of veins in the penis

What does DHT having a higher binding affinity to the AR, than DHN, have to do with deca dick? I’m not trying to be rude, sarcastic, or difficult. I’m honestly just trying to figure out what you’re trying to say, and why you’re saying it.

 

[Gman86]

Deca-dick does happen in some men. There is no definitive science as to why it happens either. Thoughts have been proposed by doctors such as the anabolic doc, and anecdotal stories have been proposed as evidence for the protagonistic and antagonistic sides of the argument, but no conclusive evidence exists (not even close).

I have heard men say that when running nandrolone by itself, they simply feel less 'manly' than running testosterone. Lacking mental clarity, lacking drive and motivation, lacking all the subjective feelings of being 'manly'. Perhaps it is simply that nandrolone is significantly less androgenic than testosterone and that this produces ED in some men (when used alone or in conjunction with TRT). Perhaps it has nothing to do with the E2 receptor or prolactin receptor sensitization, increased conversion of E1 to E2, or anything like that. Perhaps it is as simple as nandrolone being more of a feminine drug. Perhaps not. @Gman86 @Cataceous

Just like anything, it’s all in how you use it. Water can be life saving, and can be deadly. A knife can be helpful, and it can kill. Deca is no different. Once you learn the pharmacokinetics of nandrolone, you are able to learn how to use this tool with a much higher success rate. Nandrolone should never be used by itself, imo. It’s not meant to be used by itself. So anytime someone uses it by itself, and gets “deca dick” that’s their own fault, for not learning about nandrolone enough before using it, imo. Or the fault of their doctor for not learning about it enough before prescribing it as a solo therapy. Nandrolone is also not meant to be used with testosterone in moderate to high doses. I can’t think of a worse compound to use with nandrolone, than testosterone, when running testosterone higher than nandrolone. Once you learn how the body processes nandrolone, it’s very clear that even moderate to high therapeutic testosterone dosages, along with nandrolone, are going to result in a host of side effects, for most men.

I understand why you would come to the conclusion that nandrolone may be a feminizing compound, but that’s just not what I’m personally seeing anecdotally, when used correctly. Like I said, theoretically, it makes sense that if it produces DHN, which is weaker than DHT, that it may have a more feminizing effect, but when used correctly, I just don’t see this in real world situations. So far, I haven’t seen one instance of “deca dick” described by anyone here that isn’t extremely obviously why it’s occurring. Every anecdote that I’ve seen, where “deca dick” is occurring, these guys just aren’t using the “tool” that is nandrolone correctly, imo. I’ve yet to see a case where the person used it correctly, and had sexual function issues. Not saying it’s not possible, I just personally haven’t seen a case yet.

 

[DS3]

Just like anything, it’s all in how you use it. Water can be life saving, and can be deadly. A knife can be helpful, and it can kill. Deca is no different. Once you learn the pharmacokinetics of nandrolone, you are able to learn how to use this tool with a much higher success rate. Nandrolone should never be used by itself, imo. It’s not meant to be used by itself. So anytime someone uses it by itself, and gets “deca dick” that’s their own fault, for not learning about nandrolone enough before using it, imo. Or the fault of their doctor for not learning about it enough before prescribing it as a solo therapy. Nandrolone is also not meant to be used with testosterone in moderate to high doses. I can’t think of a worse compound to use with nandrolone, than testosterone, when running testosterone higher than nandrolone. Once you learn how the body processes nandrolone, it’s very clear that even moderate to high therapeutic testosterone dosages, along with nandrolone, are going to result in a host of side effects, for most men.

I understand why you would come to the conclusion that nandrolone may be a feminizing compound, but that’s just not what I’m personally seeing anecdotally, when used correctly. Like I said, theoretically, it makes sense that if it produces DHN, which is weaker than DHT, that it may have a more feminizing effect, but when used correctly, I just don’t see this in real world situations. So far, I haven’t seen one instance of “deca dick” described by anyone here that isn’t extremely obviously why it’s occurring. Every anecdote that I’ve seen, where “deca dick” is occurring, these guys just aren’t using the “tool” that is nandrolone correctly, imo. I’ve yet to see a case where the person used it correctly, and had sexual function issues. Not saying it’s not possible, I just personally haven’t seen a case yet.

@Gman86 "Just like anything, it’s all in how you use it."

There are people who cannot tolerate cinnamon because it causes horrible acid reflux and indigestion in them. There are people who cannot tolerate Advil but can tolerate other NSAIDs. There are people who are highly allergic to whey protein and can even experience renal failure if consumed. There are people who experience serotonin syndrome if they use St. John's Wart. Etc. Etc. Etc.

Based on our genetics, as well as other factors, people respond differently to medications. The answer is not always as simple as managing symptoms or finding a perfect ratio. The answer, sometimes, simply lies in the fact that there are going to be people who don't tolerate a certain medication well. Simple as that.

Nandrolone is not tolerated well by some men. Some men experience ED with it. Some men experience depression. Others experience lethargy and malaise. Some men feel increased libido, erections, etc. Some increased energy and sense of well-being.

The varying degrees of toleration and subjective experiences by men using nandrolone is not simply a matter of E2, prolactin, DHN v. DHT, blah, blah, blah. Even when all of that is managed well, some men just don't feel well taking it. Period.

 

[Gman86]

@Gman86 "Just like anything, it’s all in how you use it."

There are people who cannot tolerate cinnamon because it causes horrible acid reflux and indigestion in them. There are people who cannot tolerate Advil but can tolerate other NSAIDs. There are people who are highly allergic to whey protein and can even experience renal failure if consumed. There are people who experience serotonin syndrome if they use St. John's Wart. Etc. Etc. Etc.

Based on our genetics, as well as other factors, people respond differently to medications. The answer is not always as simple as managing symptoms or finding a perfect ratio. The answer, sometimes, simply lies in the fact that there are going to be people who don't tolerate a certain medication well. Simple as that.

Nandrolone is not tolerated well by some men. Some men experience ED with it. Some men experience depression. Others experience lethargy and malaise. Some men feel increased libido, erections, etc. Some increased energy and sense of well-being.

The varying degrees of toleration and subjective experiences by men using nandrolone is not simply a matter of E2, prolactin, DHN v. DHT, blah, blah, blah. Even when all of that is managed well, some men just don't feel well taking it. Period.

100% correct. There are always going to be genetic outliers. There absolutely going to be some men that can’t tolerate nandrolone, I would imagine. All I was saying that all the cases that I’ve seen presented, so far, have been very obvious as to why they probably had “deca dick”. Does that mean that my assumptions are 100% why they did? No definitely not. But I can clearly see, in all these cases, what could potentially be causing the issue(s).

 

[Gman86]

Am currently listening to this podcast. Wasn’t listening to it to learn about deca, or deca dick, but they serendipitously started talking about deca dick at 29 mins in

 

[DS3]

#1 Reason I HATE DECA CYCLES & Why It Belongs In The Golden Era (nandrolone and depression experiences)

(loss of libido and interest with nandrolone)

(Marc Lobliner- Deca w/ TRT and no issues)

(Dave Crosland, the same guy you just posted about @Gman86, discussing nandrolone regarding anxiety and depression- THIS IS A MUST WATCH) STUDIES: TIME= 0:00-6:34 REAL-LIFE EVIDENCE: TIME= 6:34, Dave Crosland's personal experience with losing cognitive ability while using nandrolone TIME= 9:10)

 

[Gman86]

#1 Reason I HATE DECA CYCLES & Why It Belongs In The Golden Era (nandrolone and depression experiences)

(loss of libido and interest with nandrolone)

(Marc Lobliner- Deca w/ TRT and no issues)

(Dave Crosland, the same guy you just posted about @Gman86, discussing nandrolone regarding anxiety and depression- THIS IS A MUST WATCH) STUDIES: TIME= 0:00-6:34 REAL-LIFE EVIDENCE: TIME= 6:34, Dave Crosland's personal experience with losing cognitive ability while using nandrolone TIME= 9:10)

Ive seen both the second and third video. Definitely gonna watch them again, and gonna watch the first one as well. Interesting to see if I get anything different out of them knowing what I know now. Thanks for posting these!

 

[DS3]

Haha no need to apologize. Appreciate the gesture though, and it’s nice to see someone be able to recognize things like that in themselves. I’m obsessed with human psychology, and am always working on myself, in that regard. Understanding human psychology really allows for much more mature, and constructive, conversations on here. The psychological immaturity of some guys drives me legit insane! It’s like conversing with angry 4 year olds sometimes lol.

But I apologize as well. Don’t mean to come off as a “know it all” or an expert on nandrolone, by any means. Just simply offering my take on what could be causing your issues, based off of everything I’ve learned about nandrolone so far, and also trying to offer some solutions to increase your chances of success, in regards to using nandrolone in your protocol(s). Just like I don’t take anybody else’s word as gospel, definitely don’t take my word as gospel either. I personally think Taeian Clark knows his stuff, when it comes to nandrolone. I suggest researching him on your own, and making your own conclusions. I’ve also gained a TON of knowledge from a guy I’ve been messaging daily, that’s part of Taeian’s fb group, that is using deca as his base, with low dose test, and doing much better than he ever did on testosterone alone. He also reports following hundreds and hundreds of men having similar experiences. Obviously this isn’t scientific evidence, by any means, but there’s clearly great potential with nandrolone, in regards to HRT, imo. It’s just a matter of now figuring out scientifically, why it’s so effective. But anecdotally, the results seem nothing short of amazing, and very promising.

Been looking up Taeian Clark. So it says that he specializes in nutrition and bodybuilding. No mention of graduate-level pharmacology degree or any type of credentials (also clearly evidenced in his level of writing).

Look, I get it. A lot of people can read studies and pull main points from them without a degree, and potentially even weave together loose correlations and form hypotheses from this data. However, it really stops there. Taeian Clark's assertions are hypotheses at best, pseudoscience at worst.

@Gman86 The only thing I am asking is that you don't come on this forum, one of the few forums that are supposed to present and discuss scientific evidence (not from bro sources, just go to peaktestosterone or somewhere else for that), and state bro-science from guys like Taeian Clark like it is fact.

You can, by all means, come on here and say, "There is an interesting guy with a hypothesis about deca...", but please don't come on here and say, "Deca sensitizes the E2 and prolactin receptors, as well as causes issues through DHN and DHT competition, etc. etc." You know that Taeian Clark is not a reliable scientific source, so please don't state assertions from him like it is.

 

[Gman86]

Been looking up Taeian Clark. So it says that he specializes in nutrition and bodybuilding. No mention of graduate-level pharmacology degree or any type of credentials (also clearly evidenced in his level of writing).

Look, I get it. A lot of people can read studies and pull main points from them without a degree, and potentially even weave together loose correlations and form hypotheses from this data. However, it really stops there. Taeian Clark's assertions are hypotheses at best, pseudoscience at worst.

@Gman86 The only thing I am asking is that you don't come on this forum, one of the few forums that are supposed to present and discuss scientific evidence (not from bro sources, just go to peaktestosterone or somewhere else for that), and state bro-science from guys like Taeian Clark like it is fact.

You can, by all means, come on here and say, "There is an interesting guy with a hypothesis about deca...", but please don't come on here and say, "Deca sensitizes the E2 and prolactin receptors, as well as causes issues through DHN and DHT competition, etc. etc." You know that Taeian Clark is not a reliable scientific source, so please don't state assertions from him like it is.

He may not be a doctor, but he’s obsessed with reading studies about nandrolone. If there’s a study about nandrolone, chances are he’s read it. I think you’re assuming that the things he says about nandrolone are his opinion. Nandrolone sensitizing e2 and prolactin receptors is from a study. Not sure if it’s based off of the result of one study, or more, on the subject. I’ve been talking to a few guys that have been using deca as their base for a few years now, with great success. I remember one of them posting the link to the study that talked about this. I’ll see if I can go back and find it. But as far as I know, and from what many of his members say, Taeian is a study reading machine. I’m pretty sure most of the information he talks about with nandrolone is based off of the scientific evidence. So I’m not really sure why the evidence would be considered pseudoscience just because it comes out of his mouth. I understand that most people feel more comfortable hearing the information come out of a doctors mouth, and trust what they’re saying is correct if they have a PHD next to their name, but what you have to understand is that Taeian and physicians are reading the same exact studies. There’s not special studies that are available to doctors, that normal people don’t have access to, in regards to nandrolone.

The other thing is that if he didn’t have so many followers doing well on nandrolone, I wouldn’t put so much weight into what he’s saying. But going back and forth with a few members that have been on nandrolone as their base for a few years, has been extremely eye opening. I don’t put much weight into what the members that cycle high doses of nandrolone say, that are part of his fb group. Which is honestly the majority, I’m pretty sure. I more value the anecdotal evidence from all the men on there using nandrolone as their base, with a little bit of HCG and/ or test, or even low dose estradiol, as this is a much healthier way to implement nandrolone, and is the type of protocol(s) that really take advantage of its particular pharmacokinetics, imo.

 

[Rock H. Johnson]

The study you just posted is showing that testosterone and nandrolone both have the same vasoconstriction effects. I’m still not seeing anything that shows nandrolone causes narrowing of veins in the penis

What does DHT having a higher binding affinity to the AR, than DHN, have to do with deca dick? I’m not trying to be rude, sarcastic, or difficult. I’m honestly just trying to figure out what you’re trying to say, and why you’re saying it.

This was in a response to a previous post that DHT derivatives could be a solution or prevention to DECA-Dick as it seems like DHN is binding to the AR and produces vasoconstriction. To counter that and or knock the DHN off the AR or restrict its binding by having higher levels of DHT which saturate the AR so DHN can not bind and produce DECA-dick. The effects of DHT on the body/mind organism are more androgenic/masculising and stronger then the weaker androgenic effects of DHN. But true all is anecdotal and not science so its all ¨bro-science¨.