"TRT/HRT/Nutrition/Cognition/Wellness/LT student of the game"

[Charliebizz]

I've been off six weeks and feeling pretty decent. I'm not feeling as good as I did on caffeine but better than I did at this point last time I quit, which I attribute to TRT.

The physical withdrawal symptoms resolve pretty quickly but the mental symptoms, including low mood, difficulty concentrating, lack of motivation, anxiety, etc can persist for many months. I've seen many reports that it took a year or longer for full recovery.

The idea that it could take over a year to recover from a caffeine habit is completely foreign to most people. Typically, people try quitting, discover they still feel crappy after the 1-2 weeks they were told withdrawal is supposed to take, conclude they must require caffeine to feel good, and start again. People spend entire lifetimes on it for this reason. The longest I've made it in the past was about four months before falling off the wagon due to this sort of thinking.

I should probably start a new thread about this but mendelian randomization studies suggest the only real benefits of coffee drinking are reduced risk of gallstones and kidney stones. The rest of the purported benefits are a mirage of associations that aren't causal. What it does do is shrink your gray matter volume and increase your risk of osteoarthritis among other harms.

So, I would encourage you to remain caffeine-free after making it this far. Check out the decaf subreddit for inspiration and countless examples of year+ long recoveries:

Reddit - Dive into anything

www.reddit.com

I dove pretty deep into myself. That’s why I asked you. The first week was rough from a physical stand point. Mainly headaches. The habit of drinking it was almost as hard to break as when I quit cigarettes. I’m passed all that. And the difference in my gut is night and day. So have no plans on going back. But I think I might have derailed my trt progress because I’ve been blaming that instead of actually realizing that it’s probably still the caffeine withdrawal. My wife health and well being has been going down also since we quit so I know what it is now. Just took a while to put my finger on it

 

[Belekas]

Oh ok. So your not doing trt yet!! That’s good you will at least be able to write it off if your levels don’t budge when you put on some weight. I know for me I personally feel better with a bit more fat then I like ! It sucks. But every time I try and get lean a lot of my old symptoms come back even while on trt. I also think I might be under-dosed on trt but like you I want to make sure my blood markers and bp stay good,so I tend to shy away from raising dose

100% with you on this. Health is wealth. No, not yet on TRT, been long 3 years off so took my time to study, research and observe myself how everything changes once you come off and try living your best life without pinning T and going like a maniac about all health, fitness and nutrition etc etc. So back to post yeah I want to make sure that my levels are fucked for sure before starting a life long treatment which is expensive, time consuming and whats the most important- health intervening thing that might have some serious outcomes if not watched and assessed. How long and what protocol youve been on and how do you feel if I may ask?

 

[Charliebizz]

100% with you on this. Health is wealth. No, not yet on TRT, been long 3 years off so took my time to study, research and observe myself how everything changes once you come off and try living your best life without pinning T and going like a maniac about all health, fitness and nutrition etc etc. So back to post yeah I want to make sure that my levels are fucked for sure before starting a life long treatment which is expensive, time consuming and whats the most important- health intervening thing that might have some serious outcomes if not watched and assessed. How long and what protocol youve been on and how do you feel if I may ask?

My story is a little different then most. But I contracted Lyme back in 1998 when I was 16. Had some issues but not to bad. Was still able to function and have a normal. Life just some fatigue on and off and anxiety. Then in my mid 20s I got stupid focused on getting really lean. Basically became anorexic and that’s when my hormone problems started. And I think the fact I had/have Lyme is why I never truly recovered and trt/hrt hasn’t been the best experience. I tried trt on and off a few times since then. But never fully committed till 2020. Been on 2 years straight. It has fixed some things. My libido is great. I feel much better at hockey,recover from working out better as in im not dead for 3 days after a lifting session. Also hypoglycemia type symptoms have vanished. But I still struggle with energy and fatigue. Some minor depression and low grade headaches/pressure. I seem to have issue running higher levels so been around 80-90mg a week split m-w-f. I also admittedly don’t always do the right things to feel optimal ,as in diet sleep and drinking.

I think your doing the smart thing by waiting. It’s hard to know the ratio of good stories to bad on the internet. Maybe us guys on the forums represent a small fraction of people on trt that feel bad and 90% are doing one shot a week or some gel and feeling great. But who knows. You also have to remember that your aging. And your going to have to slow down even with optimal levels to some degree (I have a really hard time with that ). While I feel the same mentally and can still keep up with the young bucks. I def pay for it lol. I hope it all works out for me and you can avoid trt for a few more years. You seem like you have a very good mind set and will do good either way. I think overthinker like me might never get any of this right hahaha.

 

[Belekas]

My story is a little different then most. But I contracted Lyme back in 1998 when I was 16. Had some issues but not to bad. Was still able to function and have a normal. Life just some fatigue on and off and anxiety. Then in my mid 20s I got stupid focused on getting really lean. Basically became anorexic and that’s when my hormone problems started. And I think the fact I had/have Lyme is why I never truly recovered and trt/hrt hasn’t been the best experience. I tried trt on and off a few times since then. But never fully committed till 2020. Been on 2 years straight. It has fixed some things. My libido is great. I feel much better at hockey,recover from working out better as in im not dead for 3 days after a lifting session. Also hypoglycemia type symptoms have vanished. But I still struggle with energy and fatigue. Some minor depression and low grade headaches/pressure. I seem to have issue running higher levels so been around 80-90mg a week split m-w-f. I also admittedly don’t always do the right things to feel optimal ,as in diet sleep and drinking.

I think your doing the smart thing by waiting. It’s hard to know the ratio of good stories to bad on the internet. Maybe us guys on the forums represent a small fraction of people on trt that feel bad and 90% are doing one shot a week or some gel and feeling great. But who knows. You also have to remember that your aging. And your going to have to slow down even with optimal levels to some degree (I have a really hard time with that ). While I feel the same mentally and can still keep up with the young bucks. I def pay for it lol. I hope it all works out for me and you can avoid trt for a few more years. You seem like you have a very good mind set and will do good either way. I think overthinker like me might never get any of this right hahaha.

Great to hear that you overcame what was thrown at ya and excelled. Also sounds that your protocol is working so far and more or less everything is for the better. It sure must be great to recover and not ache for 3 or more days after workout like i am atm but to be fair if i pushed a what i call normal workout through all the pains and aches i'd be fucked for a week if not weeks minimum lol, been there done that, no recovery just lots of aching and feels like my skeleton is fucked up when benching my own bodyweight for example. Its weird and sucks big time. Your dose sounds reasonable for me and in line what i'm planning to run once/if i start. Energy and fatigue these ones are tough and multifactorial as well and also we can't expect all days to be "white days", we will still get "black" days just like piano keys white and black which are required to play the melody. Thats life. To be fair sometimes we wan't too much and I'm not talking about your or mine particular situation but people in general. Wanting to nail everything 100% and keep improving might mess up ones psyche and one might get stressed even from looking at 100s of things and trying to find the method in the madness if that makes sense. Once I learned(and still learning) to cool myself and not overanalyse a lot of things I wanted to improve improved just like that without any other effort so I believe this is very powerfull stuff. Also gotta pay attention to the diet and what works for you and makes you feel great vs whats counter productive and detrimental like smoking, drinking etc. For me the benefits of not drinking outweight the benefits of drinking by a mile but thats just me because I can't drink at all, drank too much in my young days haha and its a good thing, cherrish the moment being sober, sharp and ready for war 24/7

Now about waiting this one is a no brainer imo, can't rush with such stuff and must try all the other options available, do some proper tests and only then make a calculated decision if all the positives outweight the negatives and still must do bloodwork to see if important blood markets are not creeping up on ya so yeah measure 9 times cut 10th. Yeah keeping up with young bucks I could as well but then would pay dearly as well haha Thanks for the good words re mindset as I work on it 24/7 trying to get better 1% each day because my work requires me to by at my top game and ready to react all day every day. Hope it works out for you and see what happens in couple of months here once I do proper venous blood tests which will cost around 200gbp around where i am at so it gets expensive fwiw. Also i believe test increases mania a bit so its easy to overthink and get stressed so working on finding ways to lower stress would be massively beneficial to you, also to me as well as I tend to do that sometimes as well. Old fucking habits die hard as they say

 

[Belekas]

You mentioned higher doses curious how much have you tried and what were your side effects at the time being? Probably 99% people I have talked to and what I've read more or less suggest starting minimum 150mg and go from there.​

Also regarding the ratio of good and bad stories Im thinking pretty much same and was even discussing the exact same situation with my wife that 90% men might be pinning one shot per week and feel great and we are the minority that feel off. Although the more I read and more I discuss with people in the UK involved with TRT the more I get the impression that its hard to find a 1 shot per week taking guy who is dialed in and feels great. Since I have a fairly high SHBG I was quite motivated to start @ 1 shot per week, small dose and go from there, but after some chats with folks that run Sustanon most suggested at least E3.5D so go figure.

@Charliebizz​

 

[Charliebizz]

You mentioned higher doses curious how much have you tried and what were your side effects at the time being? Probably 99% people I have talked to and what I've read more or less suggest starting minimum 150mg and go from there.​

Also regarding the ratio of good and bad stories Im thinking pretty much same and was even discussing the exact same situation with my wife that 90% men might be pinning one shot per week and feel great and we are the minority that feel off. Although the more I read and more I discuss with people in the UK involved with TRT the more I get the impression that its hard to find a 1 shot per week taking guy who is dialed in and feels great. Since I have a fairly high SHBG I was quite motivated to start @ 1 shot per week, small dose and go from there, but after some chats with folks that run Sustanon most suggested at least E3.5D so go figure.

@Charliebizz​

One dr on t nation has a nice chart showing all his patients and what levels dose and frequency’s they have. Most of his patients are on 1 or 2 shots a week and feel good.

I’ve tried up to 160. Didn’t really have many sides but got nervous cause my levels were over 1500 so I backed it down. I think I’m going to slowly work my way up. I’m currently on daily injections. But really thinking about swapping to 2 x a week

 

[Belekas]

One dr on t nation has a nice chart showing all his patients and what levels dose and frequency’s they have. Most of his patients are on 1 or 2 shots a week and feel good.

I’ve tried up to 160. Didn’t really have many sides but got nervous cause my levels were over 1500 so I backed it down. I think I’m going to slowly work my way up. I’m currently on daily injections. But really thinking about swapping to 2 x a week

I think I've seen it need to find it again. Oh, thought you were on the 3x week MWF as per your previous post?

 

[FunkOdyssey]

One dr on t nation has a nice chart showing all his patients and what levels dose and frequency’s they have. Most of his patients are on 1 or 2 shots a week and feel good.

Here it is: Testosterone Cream - Pros & Cons

If I recall correctly highpull uses Quest labs for testing, so the free testosterone values you see there would be Quest equilibrium dialysis with pg/mL units.

 

[Charliebizz]

I think I've seen it need to find it again. Oh, thought you were on the 3x week MWF as per your previous post?

I switched to daily’s last week. I’ve been

I think I've seen it need to find it again. Oh, thought you were on the 3x week MWF as per your previous post?

I switched to daily’s last week. I’ve been silly changing my protocols way to much lately lol.

 

[Systemlord]

When I first started TRT, I was on 75 mg 1x weekly and did respond, however I felt I wasn't receiving the full metabolic effects, and as time went on, my diabetes got worse and returning to the weekly protocol was as if I wasn't even on replacement therapy.

I have theory that men with metabolic syndrome, severe cases need the frequent injections daily or every other day to feel normal, and that the frequent spikes and steady hormone levels overcomes the metabolic abnormalities in people with metabolic syndrome.

 

[Charliebizz]

When I first started TRT, I was on 75 mg 1x weekly and did respond, however I felt I wasn't receiving the full metabolic effects, and as time went on, my diabetes got worse and returning to the weekly protocol was as if I wasn't even on replacement therapy.

I have theory that men with metabolic syndrome, severe cases need the frequent injections daily or every other day to feel normal, and that the frequent spikes and steady hormone levels overcomes the metabolic abnormalities in people with metabolic syndrome.

Besides my low t. All my other blood work is great. Especially insulin ,A1c and glucose. I still don’t get the full benefits from trt. It’s tough to nail down.

 

[Belekas]

I switched to daily’s last week. I’ve been

I switched to daily’s last week. I’ve been silly changing my protocols way to much lately lol.

Thats probably the last thing you want to do if you aim to optimise. Jumping from protocol to another without giving time for body to adjust...but happens to best of us haha Anyway hope you find progress and success in your journey!

Be cool to make a pool with all these forum members on TRT with different data like injection frequency, dosage, ester, etc, some context ofc etc just not sure if thats possible to do on this forum, probably admins could.

For me personaly pinning myself daily is not an option to sustain. Maybe once I'm older and feeling absolutely like shit then yeah if that helps, but now nah-ah. Too much work. Once/twice per week then yeah that looks sustainable. Ofc if one really needs and it works way better then infrequent injection then yeah knock your self out.

Did chest with 80kg Monday so aching like a mofo right now and probably will take all week to recover smh lol Bones/joints feel like 70yo and recovery is non existant fwiw Happy days, still will push through and get it done. Time waits for no man.

Regards,
Bel.

 

[Charliebizz]

Thats probably the last thing you want to do if you aim to optimise. Jumping from protocol to another without giving time for body to adjust...but happens to best of us haha Anyway hope you find progress and success in your journey!

Be cool to make a pool with all these forum members on TRT with different data like injection frequency, dosage, ester, etc, some context ofc etc just not sure if thats possible to do on this forum, probably admins could.

For me personaly pinning myself daily is not an option to sustain. Maybe once I'm older and feeling absolutely like shit then yeah if that helps, but now nah-ah. Too much work. Once/twice per week then yeah that looks sustainable. Ofc if one really needs and it works way better then infrequent injection then yeah knock your self out.

Did chest with 80kg Monday so aching like a mofo right now and probably will take all week to recover smh lol Bones/joints feel like 70yo and recovery is non existant fwiw Happy days, still will push through and get it done. Time waits for no man.

Regards,
Bel.

I know man. I’m gonna stick with this for 6 weeks. If I don’t feel much different I’m gonna go to 2x a week.
Daily’s aren’t actually that bad at all. Shallow I.m with insulin syringe is nothing. I’d rather take daily injections. Then do the cream to the nuts daily lol

 

[Charliebizz]

When I first started TRT, I was on 75 mg 1x weekly and did respond, however I felt I wasn't receiving the full metabolic effects, and as time went on, my diabetes got worse and returning to the weekly protocol was as if I wasn't even on replacement therapy.

I have theory that men with metabolic syndrome, severe cases need the frequent injections daily or every other day to feel normal, and that the frequent spikes and steady hormone levels overcomes the metabolic abnormalities in people with metabolic syndrome.

My theory for me personally is, maybe the increase in metabolic demand trt can cause is my issue. Since my insulin ,a1c, glucose are all fine maybe it is my thyroid. I have decent numbers. But maybe they aren’t optimal from me. One dr was explaining how t3 is almost like e2 in a sense where serum levels aren’t reflecting what’s going on in the tissues. And I do have low body temps. I messed around with thyroid a bit. Didn’t have great results in the past. But my current dr wants me to do a trial of t3 just to see. Since the half life is so short I would know relatively quick. I did a run with it back in the day with dr crisler. But might have been dosed to high to start. Didn’t feel well on it.

 

[Systemlord]

My theory for me personally is, maybe the increase in metabolic demand trt can cause is my issue.

Sure, if your body is unable to return to normal metabolic rate for whatever reason, it can cause issues.

Remember low-T is a symptom, something else is lowering your testosterone.

 

[Belekas]

I know man. I’m gonna stick with this for 6 weeks. If I don’t feel much different I’m gonna go to 2x a week.
Daily’s aren’t actually that bad at all. Shallow I.m with insulin syringe is nothing. I’d rather take daily injections. Then do the cream to the nuts daily lol

Oh hell nah, fuck the cream for sure lol

 

[Charliebizz]

Oh hell nah, fuck the cream for sure lol

The cream is potent shit though man. Can see why guys do well on it.

 

[Belekas]

The cream is potent shit though man. Can see why guys do well on it.

I bet, I've seen lots of comments from guys using it getting high levels etc. But I better pin that do it although you never know hehe

 

[Belekas]

Hey guys.

Just received 30ml of Sustanon from pharmacy and ready to start whenever I do my next blood test to confirm. Im looking into medichecks.com blood tests and have a few on the periscope. They expensive but what needs to be done needs to be done. There are a couple options available and I'm interested which one would be more suitable.

Ultimate Performance Blood Test
This one has 57 blood markers.

Advanced Sports Performance Hormone Blood Test with Free Testosterone

A comprehensive sports profile for body builders and anyone who wants to monitor their health and hormones.

medichecks.com

This one has 43 blood markers.

Also want to do a venous draw so will have to pay another 50gbp on top of that for a nurse to come visit me smh what a strange system they have here in the UK in my town there are no walk-in clinics where one can pay and get his blood drawn without much headache but iiwii.

If any other good UK options are there please let me know. Appreciate all the help guys and looking forward to start making progress.

Best regards,
Bel

 

[Belekas]

Update: I've seen my GP some weeks ago and showed her my private blood test result and demanded endo take a look. She wasn't happy but did write a request to them. Yesterday got a text from GP surgery that endo assistance wants to run some blood tests at the NHS considering my matter. I know they will probably test TT and not FT but I will see what can be done and how/if I can benefit from this situation. Saving on correct blood test would be awesome so see what happens on the 20th this month. Actually I'm a bit amazed as was sure they won't come through at all to test me etc but you never know. Always worth exhausting all other options before going your own or trt clinic route. I'm pretty sure if I wasn't demanding care when I was at my GP and talked to her the way I did nothing would be done but I made sure that they do put my private blood test result with below range FT etc on my file and told her if something happens to me in regards to lowT then they would know that I do asked for help. It made sense to me and maybe thats exactly why they want to run the tests themselfs. So see what happens