Understanding My Levels

[Jerajera]

Libido is very strong. In the gym, I have high endurance, can lift heavy, strong as F

Sounds good to me.

I get up at 5AM, workout 6-7, go non-stop with the kids until 8:15AM, work until 2:30-3, then dinner/groceries/sports practice etc.

This is not why I'm tired?

You're able to do all of that despite getting only 6 hours of sleep every night, which also sounds pretty good to me.

I guess the question is how do you feel going through the day? Are you constantly dragging yourself through every single thing you do, thinking about how much easier it would be to off yourself, or are you feeling pretty good throughout the day until you get tired in the evening?

HRT is at this point not the science it'll be in 50-100 years, when almost everyone will likely be optimized beyond what we can now imagine.
There are many men for whom hormone replacement/optimization doesn't work well and isn't worth the headaches (sometimes literally) and hassle of spending years, possibly decades, working on optimizing your protocol while trying to determine whether you're feeling like shit because your Estrogen is too high, your natural production has shut down and your neurosteroids are tanked, your protocol isn't mimicking natural variations enough, or a dozen other possibilities your own doctor won't have the answer to.

I usually fight the notion that all someone with bottom range Free T has to do is eat enough bananas for potassium and get enough sleep to completely turn things around, but in your case it seems your baseline physical and mental health and energy are high enough that you might be able to go from feeling pretty good to really good by losing fat and implementing a few other lifestyle choices.

Given how far HRT is from a guaranteed success, I would advise you to implement those changes and see how you feel.
To answer your question, yes your levels (Free T is what matters here) are low, very low in fact. But given how you say you feel I don't think it's necessarily a problem.
In 10-15 years you could revist the idea and then the tradeoff might be worth it and we might be further along in our understanding of endocrinology and HRT.

 

[Systemlord]

You're able to do all of that despite getting only 6 hours of sleep every night

With everything on @canadianeh plate, given the level of activity and shortchanging on rest, it’s only a matter of time before things get worse. Maybe get more rest and dial down on some activities.

A lot of important things happen when you rest, especially after lifting weights.

 

[madman]

Posted this on Reddit but only got a little feedback. Looking to discuss a bit more:"

I'm 42, no real symptoms of Low T AFAI. Maybe low energy but I chalk that up to 5:30AM wakeups and being busy most days,

I workout pretty hard 5 days per week lifting & cardio. I sleep okay'ish. I usually get to bed around 11 wake up around 5 having to use the bathrooms.

I eat, okay not great. Too much junk. I'm carrying a bit too much body fat right now prob 22-24%

I've been reading and hearing about TRT more than ever before. In Canada, I signed up for OnMen which made it relatively simply to get my blood checked.

Yesterday I had a follow-up consultant.

She said T is low but above "normal" range.She said FT is low but not horrible.

She said I would be a candidate for TRT but it's not really something you try and then get off if you don't like. She also talked about the risk of "man boobs", or trying to come off TRT and then levels being worse or struggling to come back to normal.

I asked if I was low, why have I never experienced any of the symptoms. I.e. energy is good, libido good, everything works as it should. She said maybe I've always been low and just coped and perhaps I could be feeling better/more energy?!

Testosterone = 12.9 nmol/L which I think equates 371

Free T = 267 pmo/L which I believe is 73 pg/ml

Full results:

https://imgur.com/a/W7qfcLq

Her end advice was if I wasnt sure, maybe use these numbers as a baseline and check again in 3 months and 6 months. Any other advice/thoughts on the numbers?

Was your blood work done in the early am and did you fast?

 

[madman]

This comment pretty much tells you it’s testosterone related if Dr. Eugene Shippen has anything to say about it. Dr. Eugene Shippen which I’ll link a video below says if you feel tired before your usual bedtime, it’s more than likely testosterone related.

Dr. Eugene Shippen has been prescribing TRT for 50 years and has a lot of experience with men’s hormones.

You have been on here long enough!

It was posted as soon as it dropped.

The Decline In Men's Testosterone

In this episode of the Maximus Podcast, Dr. Cam interviews Dr. Eugene Shippen. Dr. Eugene has over 50 years of medical experience in endocrinology & family medicine. Dr. Eugene is one of the leading endocrinologists in the US, has been at the forefront of men's health and treating men with low...

www.excelmale.com

 

[Belekas]

Sounds good to me.



You're able to do all of that despite getting only 6 hours of sleep every night, which also sounds pretty good to me.

I guess the question is how do you feel going through the day? Are you constantly dragging yourself through every single thing you do, thinking about how much easier it would be to off yourself, or are you feeling pretty good throughout the day until you get tired in the evening?

HRT is at this point not the science it'll be in 50-100 years, when almost everyone will likely be optimized beyond what we can now imagine.
There are many men for whom hormone replacement/optimization doesn't work well and isn't worth the headaches (sometimes literally) and hassle of spending years, possibly decades, working on optimizing your protocol while trying to determine whether you're feeling like shit because your Estrogen is too high, your natural production has shut down and your neurosteroids are tanked, your protocol isn't mimicking natural variations enough, or a dozen other possibilities your own doctor won't have the answer to.

I usually fight the notion that all someone with bottom range Free T has to do is eat enough bananas for potassium and get enough sleep to completely turn things around, but in your case it seems your baseline physical and mental health and energy are high enough that you might be able to go from feeling pretty good to really good by losing fat and implementing a few other lifestyle choices.

Given how far HRT is from a guaranteed success, I would advise you to implement those changes and see how you feel.
To answer your question, yes your levels (Free T is what matters here) are low, very low in fact. But given how you say you feel I don't think it's necessarily a problem.
In 10-15 years you could revist the idea and then the tradeoff might be worth it and we might be further along in our understanding of endocrinology and HRT.

I agree with everything Jerajera said in his post and hes spot on everything here IME. I wouldn't touch anything if its working good, libido good, gym endurance/strenght on point, recovery good, and all that on only 6hrs sleep. IMO it doesn't matter that your cFT is barely in range and low, it all depends on how you feel and how you function across the day/week. Just exhaust all natural options, tick every box and enjoy your life, as messing with TRT can get ugly and cost you precious time, effort, feeling off, etc. I started TRT 2 months ago because I was feeling tired, not recovering well, joints cracking etc BUT i was too lean and for too long thus crashed my hormones and felt like death. So I have increased food, sleep, reduced training, took 10mg Boron with some Zinc and other basic stuff for a couple of months and oh boy I started feeling good. Started to get morning wood and libido went up nicely. I was happy but I also had 30ml Sustanon stacked and so after long thought process I decided to give it a go. Was very very skeptical before as I started feeling really good naturally even with crashed FT as my weight went up. So IMO I wouldn't mess if its not broken and would continue to get healthier and stronger naturally and then later on in life, when we will have a lot more information in this field, reevaluate the situation. That would be a logical step to take, more or less.

 

[canadianeh]

Was your blood work done in the early am and did you fast?

Did not fast, but was done in the AM!

 

[madman]

Did not fast, but was done in the AM!

If anything I would get retested seeing as you did not fast.

Hard to believe the clinic did not tell you.

At least they never pushed you into jumping on trt.

Strong chance your levels would have come back even higher.

Even then as you stated previously:

*I'm 42, no real symptoms of Low T AFAI

*I asked if I was low, why have I never experienced any of the symptoms. I.e. energy is good, libido good, everything works as it should.




Look over post #9.

Testosterone Blood Test Results - Time of Day?

I have taken two blood tests over the last two weeks with very different results. I appreciate levels fluctuate all the time from day, week, month and clearly hourly, so getting a consistent results is almost impossible. I was very surprised at the difference in levels! Test 1 - taken at...

www.excelmale.com

 

[canadianeh]

I had a protein shake that morning, that was it. I was told fasting wasnt necessary. I am planning on trying some natural routes and then will retest in a few months.

 

[madman]

I had a protein shake that morning, that was it. I was told fasting wasnt necessary. I am planning on trying some natural routes and then will retest in a few months.

Retest again fasted and even then I would not rely on one test!

 

[Systemlord]

I was told fasting wasnt necessary.

There is new data showing a small percentage of the population will see a drastic reduction in testosterone after eating breakfast, abnormally low and so the guidelines are about to change to reflect this new data.

Scrutinize everything you’re told.

 

[canadianeh]

FYI, I asked the DR. what a dosage would be like for me. This is what was said:

"Your starting dose would 80mg dived into 2 doses weekly

If you try TRT and find no benefit and stop, there could be a period where your own testosterone production is suppressed and you may experience lower TT levels .

90% of men will recover to pre TRT levels in 1 year

You can add HCG if you stop TRt and speed up the time to recover your one TT levels."

 

[Hyrulewarrior1978]

FYI, I asked the DR. what a dosage would be like for me. This is what was said:

"Your starting dose would 80mg dived into 2 doses weekly

If you try TRT and find no benefit and stop, there could be a period where your own testosterone production is suppressed and you may experience lower TT levels .

90% of men will recover to pre TRT levels in 1 year

You can add HCG if you stop TRt and speed up the time to recover your one TT levels."

I would be very cautious about any kind of medical intervention if you’re feeling good. Some negatives: You’ll be reliant on medication for the rest of your life. Trt is essentially a new fad (think trt clinic boom) and has no long term studies (you could be harming your body long-term for short-term benefits). Of course, doctors won’t tell you this since their income is dependent on you having a perceived problem and coming in for check ups often. I say hold off for now. Jmo.

 

[Systemlord]

Trt is essentially a new fad and has no long term studies (you could be harming your body long-term for short-term benefits).

Differential effects of 11 years of long-term injectable testosterone undecanoate therapy on anthropometric and metabolic parameters in hypogonadal men with normal weight, overweight and obesity in comparison with untreated controls: real-world data from a controlled registry study​

Results​

Long-term TTh in hypogonadal men, irrespective of weight at baseline, produced improvements in body weight, waist circumference (WC) and body mass index (BMI). Furthermore, TTh decreased fasting blood glucose and HbA1c and improved lipid profiles. Gradual decreases in blood pressure (systolic and diastolic) and pulse pressure occurred in men treated with T in each group. Marked reductions in mortality and major cardiovascular events were recorded in men receiving TTh.

Conclusions​

Our findings demonstrate that TTh produces reductions in weight, WC, and BMI. There were 77 (19.5%) deaths in the untreated groups and 23 (5.4%) in the T-groups. Based on these findings we suggest that long-term TTh in overweight and obese hypogonadal men produces progressive and sustained clinically meaningful weight loss and that TTh may contribute to reductions
in mortality and incident major adverse cardiovascular events.

Differential effects of 11 years of long-term injectable testosterone undecanoate therapy on anthropometric and metabolic parameters in hypogonadal men with normal weight, overweight and obesity in comparison with untreated controls: real-world data

Obesity is a chronic disease, warranting long-term medical intervention. We evaluated effects of testosterone (T) therapy (Th) in men with T deficiency with normal weight, overweight and obesity on anthropometric and metabolic parameters, compared with untreated men. Hypogonadal men (n = 823)...

www.nature.com

 

[Hyrulewarrior1978]

Differential effects of 11 years of long-term injectable testosterone undecanoate therapy on anthropometric and metabolic parameters in hypogonadal men with normal weight, overweight and obesity in comparison with untreated controls: real-world data from a controlled registry study​

Differential effects of 11 years of long-term injectable testosterone undecanoate therapy on anthropometric and metabolic parameters in hypogonadal men with normal weight, overweight and obesity in comparison with untreated controls: real-world data

Obesity is a chronic disease, warranting long-term medical intervention. We evaluated effects of testosterone (T) therapy (Th) in men with T deficiency with normal weight, overweight and obesity on anthropometric and metabolic parameters, compared with untreated men. Hypogonadal men (n = 823)...

www.nature.com

This study (as are most studies you refer to) pertains to truly hypogonadal men (men who have an actual problem with their pituitary or testes, both of which are rare). I get that you’re a proponent of treatment, but everyone is different and shouldn’t be mislead if they are gathering information about starting an arguably aggressive medical intervention.

 

[canadianeh]

I would be very cautious about any kind of medical intervention if you’re feeling good. Some negatives: You’ll be reliant on medication for the rest of your life. Trt is essentially a new fad (think trt clinic boom) and has no long term studies (you could be harming your body long-term for short-term benefits). Of course, doctors won’t tell you this since their income is dependent on you having a perceived problem and coming in for check ups often. I say hold off for now. Jmo.

I am 100% cautious about this. This really started simple more out of curiosity.