Looking for advice starting my journey.
Recovering from anorexia. A physician myself but also following with a men’s health specialist.
I can give labs if needed but not sure how to best run this given my history of AGA.
In the past had developing AGA. got a small hair transplant and started 0.5mg dutasteride and 5 mg minoxidil. My hairline is completely restored and very thick and healthy.
Doc originally suggested test-c 150mg divided 2x/week with deca 75 mg 2x/week.
My concern is I read that dut +’deca will accelerate hair loss. The science makes sense to me also as a physician although I do not do mens health (hospice doc).
I have considered doing as suggested online and stopping the dut but fearful the test will convert to DHT and I’ll loose hair.
Alternatively I have considered stopping the dut and doing deca only as that seems to be hair safe. But I am not sure how long that is sustainable for. My goal is lean muscle as I am just skin and bones now.
The third option is just TRT alone with dut.
Any thoughts on which is the best hair protective option? Labs will be monitored. Provider is open to discussion since I am a colleague.
Last free test 101. Really looking to put on lean mass. People think I have cancer. Hit the gym 4x a week with a great program and pushing calories but gains have been glacial. I have stats/pictures of helpful.
Thank you
If you have low T and are recovering from anorexia let alone looking into adding back some muscle mass all you would really need here is a therapeutic dose of T 100-200 mg T/week combined with a proper diet/training protocol and you will achieve a healthy fit physique.
Using a therapeutic dose of T which will allow you to attain a heathy FT is all that is needed.
Men on TTh are injecting 100-200 mg T/week whether once weekly or split into more frequent injections as in twice-weekly, M/W/F, EOD or daily.
The majority of men can easily hit a healthy let alone high trough FT injecting 100-150 mg T/week especiallly when split into more frequent injections.
Yes as I always say ther are those OUTLIERS who may need the higher-end dose 200 mg T/week but it is FAR from COMMON as in RARE!
Such dose would have the MAJORITY of men OVERF**KING MEDICATED.....plain and simple!
Yes the higher-end therapeutic dose of 200 mg vs 100 mg/week will result in more gains in muscle/strength and recovery but you are more prone to sides especially elevated RBCs, hemoglobin and hematocrit.
Top it off that running too high a steady-state/trough FT level can be just as bad in many ways as running too low a FT especially when it comes to libido and erectile function and throw mood in there too as T has a tonic effect on the CNS which can easily make one feel amped up.
You will be hammering the S**T out of your dopamine 24/7 to boot!
Too many are overmedicated on T especially from the get-go!
You can put the blame on the run of the mill T-clinics, so called internet gurus, goo tube and all those bumass so called HRT/mens health forums loaded with those you know blast n cruizerzzz!
In the past had developing AGA. got a small hair transplant and started 0.5mg dutasteride and 5 mg minoxidil. My hairline is completely restored and very thick and healthy.
Keep in mind when it comes to MPB/AGA your chance of accelerating such when using exogenous T comes down to genetics and sensitivity of the AR/hair follices to DHT.
Important point often overlooked here is that high DHT is not always needed as again it comes down to the sensitivity of the AR/hair follices to DHT.
Would tread lightly when it comes to f**king with 5AR inhibitors let alone AIs as Ts metabolites estradiol and DHT are needed in healthy amounts to experience the full spectrum of testosterones beneficial effects on (cardiovascular health, brain health, libido, erectile function, bone health, tendon health, immune system, lipids, and body composition).
Doc originally suggested test-c 150mg divided 2x/week with deca 75 mg 2x/week.
My concern is I read that dut +’deca will accelerate hair loss. The science makes sense to me also as a physician although I do not do mens health (hospice doc).
I have considered doing as suggested online and stopping the dut but fearful the test will convert to DHT and I’ll loose hair.
Again I would tread lighty when it comes to use of a 5AR inhibitor.
Counter productive with ND to boot!
150 mg T/week will most likely have your trough FT high which is good enough to gain muscle mass/strength when following a proper diet/training protcol.
Definitely going to be more prone to accelerating hair loss with an increase in DHTf from TEST but again comes down to the sensitivity AR/hair follicle.
Yes throwing in another 150 mg of esterified androgens (ND) would allow one too get away with running a higher weekly dose of androgens (300 mg) while at the same time minimizing some sides due to the mild androgenicity of ND.
Even then 150 mg T + 150 mg ND is a whopping weely dose of androgens for HRT.
No different than one banging 300 mg T weekly other than minimizing some of the cosmetic sides
300 mg T let alone 300 mg combined androgens is not therapeutic.
Everyone so caught up on labs for TT/FT yet no one blinks ane eye when it comes to their blood levels of ND which they are clueless acting as if throwing in the ND is a freebie LMFAO!
Most using/abusing T for the sole purpose of enhancing muscle/strength would consider 300 mg T getting your feet wet!
400-600 mg T is where it as this is where anabolism is thrown into overdrive.
Look over post #5/10
Hi, looking for some "theory" here based on your experience. I'm trying to understand the effects of replacing some T in my protocol with Nandrolone vs. adding Nandrolone on top of the existing Testosterone dose.
Here goes..
1. Nandrolone drives polycythemia more than Testosterone.
a. If I am on 150mg/week Testosterone Cypionate and need to do a 1 pint phlebotomy every 3 months or so, how often could I expect to need to do that on 100mg Testosterone + 50 mg Nandrolone?
b. What about 150mg Testosterone + 75mg Nandrolone?
2. Nandrolone decreases HDL cholesterol.
a. My...
Alternatively I have considered stopping the dut and doing deca only as that seems to be hair safe. But I am not sure how long that is sustainable for. My goal is lean muscle as I am just skin and bones now.
Most sensible protocol when it comes to gaining mass while at the same time minimizing sides would be ND but again this is a bad move long-term as Ts metabolite estradiol is needed.
The sensible ones would throw in hCG or supplement with estradiol.
My reply from an older thread:
Bad move long-term especially when it comes to bone/tendon health!
Healthy estradiol levels are needed.
ND-only protocol would never replace let alone mimic natural endogenous T.
The main reason testosterone is used for replacement therapy over nandrolone let alone any other AAS is that testosterone drugs provide a hormone that is already produced in the body.
More importantly, Ts metabolites estradiol and DHT are needed in healthy amounts to experience the full spectrum of testosterones beneficial effects on (cardiovascular health, brain health, libido, erectile function, bone health, tendon health, immune system, lipids, and body composition).
*Natural testosterone is viewed as the best androgen for substitution in hypogonadal men. The reason behind the selection is that testosterone can be converted to DHT and E2, thus developing the full spectrum of testosterone activities in long-term substitution
*Preparations of native testosterone or its esters (aromatizable T) should be used for TTh
Love seeing this thread take off! Great talking points. BTW Gman you were right. Acne flare up has a gone down again. I ended going back to daily Deca injections and acne stopped next few days. At this point I am very curious/tempted to just drop the test all together and go Deca only. What is the potential risk/concerns with this?
Do not get me started on these clowns preaching that ND-based-only protocol bullshit!
Would tread lightly on this one.
Bad move long-term especially when it comes to bone/tendon health!
Healthy estradiol levels are needed.
ND-only...
The third option is just TRT alone with dut.
Again I would tread lightly when it comes to use of a 5AR inhibitor.
As I stated Ts metabolites are needed.
Yes a T only protocol using a dose which allows you to attain a healthy or better yet high FT will be advantageous when it comes to gaining muscle/increasing strength and the higher-end therapeutic dose 200 mg T/week will give you the most bang as this is where Ts anbolic potential truly starts to shine!
Downfall here is one will be more prone to sides when running a high/very high steady-state/trough FT level especially RBCs, hemoglobin and hematocrit.
Many can even end up struggling with libido and erectile function.
Any thoughts on which is the best hair protective option? Labs will be monitored. Provider is open to discussion since I am a colleague.
Dropping the 5AR and jumping on 200 mg ND would be your best bet if your goal was to gain muscle while at the same time minimizing hair loss but again healthy estradiol levels are needed especially long-term.
Yes there are many that still choose to run ND only let alone long-term but it is not a smart move.
You can easily gain some size on 200 mg ND/week as this is where its true anabolic potential will start to shine.
If you cannot gain any size on 200 mg/week than I would say your diet/training program is suboptimal or unfortunately you were blessed with shitty genetics!
GENETICS will always have the final say regardless of how hard you train or how locked down your diet is!
We have a guy on here who has been caught up on high-end therapeutic T, ND even pushing 200+ mg for years let alone 300 mg androgens/week (T/ND/Primo, blah, blah) from last I heard looks like he has never touched AAS!
Case of what you would call shitty GENETICS!
Bottom line here do what you feel is best for you!
