Thoughts / Experiences with Nolvadex (Tamoxifen) for hCG mono induced Gynecomastia?

[HR_Watson]

Howdy folks.

Without posting my full history - I've been on hCG mono for the past 3.5 months with really excellent results. No side effects, except that I've developed a minor case of gynecomastia.

I feel fantastic - T at around 1000, E2 is at 59. We tried Arimidex, but the side effects were unbearable and it didn't help the gynecomastia.

My physician is suggesting Nolvadex/Tamoxifen, 20mg ED until we get the gynecomastia under control. At that point, we'll either switch to a lower dose of AI, or try some other combos (low dose T + hCG).

I was wondering if anyone has an experience with Nolvadex / Tamoxifen?
I was on Clomid for 9 years and hated it...I know Nolva is a related drug. hCG has been life-changing for me, even with the gyno.

I'm mildly concerned about the effect on IGF-1, way more concerned how it'll affect my mood. I suffer from depression/anxiety, and the hCG has been amazing for that.

Thanks!

 

[HealthMan]

Tamoxifen usually is very good at getting rid of recent gyno. 20mg ED until gyno is gone is a good protocol. Usually takes anywhere from 1-3 months. If not gone after that only surgery to fix it. But make sure you get your estradiol under control as well otherwise gyno will most likely returned (if it was caused by high e2 in the first place). Also very important to taper off. Once gyno is gone reduced the dosage to 10mg ED for 1 week. Then 5mg ED for another week.
I hav used tamoxifen successfully to get rid of gyno a few times already.
SHBG always increased for me. I never measure IGF-1 but som studies show that it has a lowering effect.
Last time I used tamoxifen i felt like s.... i will not sugar coat it. But a lot of people don’t feel bad at all. For me it made tired, killed my libido and erection quality

 

[HR_Watson]

Tamoxifen usually is very good at getting rid of recent gyno. 20mg ED until gyno is gone is a good protocol. Usually takes anywhere from 1-3 months. If not gone after that only surgery to fix it. But make sure you get your estradiol under control as well otherwise gyno will most likely returned (if it was caused by high e2 in the first place). Also very important to taper off. Once gyno is gone reduced the dosage to 10mg ED for 1 week. Then 5mg ED for another week.
I hav used tamoxifen successfully to get rid of gyno a few times already.
SHBG always increased for me. I never measure IGF-1 but som studies show that it has a lowering effect.
Last time I used tamoxifen i felt like s.... i will not sugar coat it. But a lot of people don't feel bad at all. For me it made tired, killed my libido and erection quality

Thanks, this is tremendously helpful. I've read that anecdotally, not a lot of people feel too hot on Nolva, and I'm kind of dreading this...but plastic surgery isn't a realistic option at this juncture.

Any other side effects? Mood, energy, weight?

And do you mind if I ask what your current regimen is?

 

[Nelson Vergel]

Great drug for gyno since it blocks E2 and decreases IGF-1. It will prevent gains at the gym, though.

 

[HR_Watson]

Great drug for gyno since it blocks E2 and decreases IGF-1. It will prevent gains at the gym, though.

Hi Nelson, thanks very much for the reply. That's disappointing to hear - one of the best things about the hCG is that I've dropped about 3% body fat while adding around 5lbs of muscle. I look great, save for the feminine nipples. Is it likely to destroy my libido as well?

Does this make sense to you - get the gyno under control, and then move forward with an AI? I feel alive for the first time in years on hCG, I'd really hate to go off it, and I've read that surgery for gyno has its own host of complications (aside from the obvious ones...)

 

[HealthMan]

Thanks, this is tremendously helpful. I've read that anecdotally, not a lot of people feel too hot on Nolva, and I'm kind of dreading this...but plastic surgery isn't a realistic option at this juncture.

Any other side effects? Mood, energy, weight?

And do you mind if I ask what your current regimen is?

I am not using tamoxifen now. My current protocol is 55mg testosterone cypionate, 500 IU HCG, 50IU FSH all E3.5D. No AI.
No other side effects other than the ones i mentioned. I workout 4-5 times a week and no negative impact at the gym as well.

 

[SPEEDY]

HR - I have used Tamoxifen to combat Gyno successfully and didn't feel at all bad, however I do believe my libido dropped.
As Healthman said - taper it off once the gyno has gone

 

[HR_Watson]

Thanks for the replies everyone. I'll report in a bit on how I'm feeling and if this resolves the gyno. Other members might find the information useful.

 

[HR_Watson]

Quick update: 3 days on Tamoxifen 20mg daily (10mg in the AM, 10mg in the PM), and the gyno seems to be resolving already. It's sort of reversing in the same order it started...which means the discs under my nipples might be the last things to go.

Too soon to tell if there are any side effects, and I'm curious to know how the elevated LH & FSH is going to affect me, if at all.

 

[HealthMan]

Quick update: 3 days on Tamoxifen 20mg daily (10mg in the AM, 10mg in the PM), and the gyno seems to be resolving already. It's sort of reversing in the same order it started...which means the discs under my nipples might be the last things to go.

Too soon to tell if there are any side effects, and I'm curious to know how the elevated LH & FSH is going to affect me, if at all.

Happy for you! Usually you see a big difference in the first few days but it takes a few weeks to get rid of the gyno (depending on the size longer). Try to avoid touching it too much (in my opinion that slows down the process of getting rid of the gyno) and also no rush to stop taking tamoxifen. Once the gyno is completely gone taper off (1 week 10mg + 1 week 5mg)

 

[HR_Watson]

Happy for you! Usually you see a big difference in the first few days but it takes a few weeks to get rid of the gyno (depending on the size longer). Try to avoid touching it too much (in my opinion that slows down the process of getting rid of the gyno) and also no rush to stop taking tamoxifen. Once the gyno is completely gone taper off (1 week 10mg + 1 week 5mg)

I'm relieved, lemme tell you. I'm shocked at the difference in only 3 days. And no, definitely not going to rush with this at all. I'm going to make sure this resolves, and then figure out a way to get my levels back where they were before I change anything up.

Hard to tell if this is affecting my libido just yet. Doesn't seem to be affecting my workout. Not sure about body fat, except to say that my chest is getting smaller (in a very good way).

The only potential issue is that I'm not sleeping as deeply, and when I do, I'm having very intense and vivid dreams.

Once again, thanks for the tips/advice, and I'll continue to update as things move forward. There isn't a lot of discussion about Tamoxifen on here, so hopefully, this will help other folks.

 

[HR_Watson]

Update:

3.5 weeks on Tamoxifen.
The positives:
-The gynecomastia has all but resolved. It fluctuates throughout the day, at it's best I'm 95% better, at it's worst, 75%.
-I've lost a lot of weight. I've dropped close to 5 lbs. It's a combination of muscle and fat - but a lot of stubborn belly fat is gone, finally. I was at 16% bf, now I'm down to 14%.

The negatives: lots of side effects. Hairloss, acne, muscle ache, fatigue, low libido, weak orgasm, lethargy, depression.

Currently taking 20mg a day, going to maybe drop down to 10mg - but wondering how I'll move forward. hCG+Nolva more or less negates itself. I feel *amazing* on hCG mono, but need to find a way to avoid the gyno.

 

[HealthMan]

Update:

3.5 weeks on Tamoxifen.
The positives:
-The gynecomastia has all but resolved. It fluctuates throughout the day, at it's best I'm 95% better, at it's worst, 75%.
-I've lost a lot of weight. I've dropped close to 5 lbs. It's a combination of muscle and fat - but a lot of stubborn belly fat is gone, finally. I was at 16% bf, now I'm down to 14%.

The negatives: lots of side effects. Hairloss, acne, muscle ache, fatigue, low libido, weak orgasm, lethargy, depression.

Currently taking 20mg a day, going to maybe drop down to 10mg - but wondering how I'll move forward. hCG+Nolva more or less negates itself. I feel *amazing* on hCG mono, but need to find a way to avoid the gyno.

I warned you that tamoxifen for some people is like poison. It makes me feel really lethargic. If I were you I would keep 20mg a day until it is gone (give it at least a few more weeks). Dropping to 10mg will likely not make you feel any better and it will take longer to resolve your gyno. Also i cannot emphasize this enough. Do not touch your nipples 24/7 it will only extend the time it takes for the gyno to resolve. Telling you all this with experience of someone that got rid of gyno with tamoxifen 4 times

 

[HR_Watson]

I warned you that tamoxifen for some people is like poison. It makes me feel really lethargic. If I were you I would keep 20mg a day until it is gone (give it at least a few more weeks). Dropping to 10mg will likely not make you feel any better and it will take longer to resolve your gyno. Also i cannot emphasize this enough. Do not touch your nipples 24/7 it will only extend the time it takes for the gyno to resolve. Telling you all this with experience of someone that got rid of gyno with tamoxifen 4 times

You weren't joking. The hairloss, lethargy and depresssion is the worst. I was fine for the first few weeks, but it really kicked in bad in the past week.

Curious - you said you've done this four times now. How are you preventing gynecomastia in your current protocol?

 

[HealthMan]

You weren't joking. The hairloss, lethargy and depresssion is the worst. I was fine for the first few weeks, but it really kicked in bad in the past week.

Curious - you said you've done this four times now. How are you preventing gynecomastia in your current protocol?

I need to keep my estradiol below 30 or i get gyno. At the beginning i was using anastrozole. Now i dropped my dosage to 55mg E3.5D and I am no longer taking anastrozole. I have added DIM, calcium D Glucarate and zinc. I haven’t tested my estradiol yet but so far no gyno.
You have to find out what triggered your gyno. It was probably the estradiol but might be prolactin, low DHT, low T/E2 ratio. If it is estradiol that is causing the gyno try to reduce your testosterone/HCG dosage and use anastrozole if needed. I would aim for estradiol levels below 25-30 and see if that works.
Sometimes it took me 3 mths to get rid of gyno with tamoxifen . But given what you posted here i am convinced you should have good success by extending the tamoxifen at 20mg a day until it is gone. Then drop to 10mg for 1 week and 5mg for another week and stop. Try to check the gyno just a few times a week. It will heal faster this way

 

[HealthMan]

What is you Free Testosterone and SHBG? What is your current HCG mono therapy? Maybe you have room to decrease your dosage. Or maybe try testosterone injections (it should have a lower impact on estradiol than high dose HCG).

 

[HR_Watson]

What is you Free Testosterone and SHBG? What is your current HCG mono therapy? Maybe you have room to decrease your dosage. Or maybe try testosterone injections (it should have a lower impact on estradiol than high dose HCG).

I just had my blood drawn - waiting on the results.

I don't know if I'm a great candidate for TRT - fertility is a big concern and my physician feels that if I'm getting gyno on hCG, I'll still be getting it on T.

I'm currently doing 1500 IU of hCG. At 2000 IU I felt amazing, but that's what kicked in the gyno. Dropping down dosage once I had it didn't help.

I've noticed that I feel best with both high T and high E. My prolactin was high for sure, so I suspect that might have been the cause.

Yeah, the nolva is brutal. The weight loss is awesome, I look ripped - but everything else is pretty awful.

 

[Nelson Vergel]

I am working on creating a tamoxifen cream soon. Will let you guys know.

 

[HealthMan]

I just had my blood drawn - waiting on the results.

I don't know if I'm a great candidate for TRT - fertility is a big concern and my physician feels that if I'm getting gyno on hCG, I'll still be getting it on T.

I'm currently doing 1500 IU of hCG. At 2000 IU I felt amazing, but that's what kicked in the gyno. Dropping down dosage once I had it didn't help.

I've noticed that I feel best with both high T and high E. My prolactin was high for sure, so I suspect that might have been the cause.

Yeah, the nolva is brutal. The weight loss is awesome, I look ripped - but everything else is pretty awful.

If you didn’t have gyno at 1500IU if I were you would switch back to this dosage. Keep the tamoxifen until gyno gone. Once gyno has started to develop a dosage reduction usually is not enough to get rid of it. But after it is gone if your e2 is under control you should have no issues with gyno comingo back.
I also felt better with my e2 at around mid 30s but above 30 i always get gyno. At low to mid 20s I feel good as well and no gyno issues.

 

[HealthMan]

I am working on creating a tamoxifen cream soon. Will let you guys know.

I think this is a great idea. In theory using a cream can avoid all the side effects. Back in the day i almost tried to crush a few tamoxifen pills and mix with a high absorption cream and apply on the skin to fight gyno. But I never followed through with the idea.