Those taking AI, what is your dose? Is there such a thing as anastrozole resistance?

[trtthings]

I've been taking testosterone cypionate for 4 weeks. 40mg EOD, along with 1.5mg anastrozole weekly.

I was afraid that with this anastrozole dose I might be driving my estradiol down too low, but recently I measured it at 81 pg/ml. Maybe this is due to the testosterone dosage being way too high, I didn't measure actual T-levels, and the lab was on injection day (several hours post-injection).

But in any case I do not care to see 81 pg/ml. I've also noted that I feel a lot less emotional (overly emotional) with a even heftier dose of anastrozole.

Has anyone had a similar experience?

Likewise I only get morning wood taking a greater dose.

 

[S1W]

You’ve only been on TRT for four weeks?

If so, I hate to break it to you but you likely have a long road of trial and error ahead.

My advice would be to try various injection frequencies/dosage adjustments using T only - no AI. Get as close as you can to feeling good and healthy numbers using that approach, then consider adding AI if necessary at that point.

4 weeks in is on the early side for testing...add in the element that you did incomplete testing at an odd time relative to your injection, and you may be spinning your wheels here.

Not trying to be harsh, just trying to put your mind at ease and get you focused on the road ahead. All the best.

 

[madman]

You’ve only been on TRT for four weeks?

If so, I hate to break it to you but you likely have a long road of trial and error ahead.

My advice would be to try various injection frequencies/dosage adjustments using T only - no AI. Get as close as you can to feeling good and healthy numbers using that approach, then consider adding AI if necessary at that point.

4 weeks in is on the early side for testing...add in the element that you did incomplete testing at an odd time relative to your injection, and you may be spinning your wheels here.

Not trying to be harsh, just trying to put your mind at ease and get you focused on the road ahead. All the best.

What's your experience with being overly emotional / brain fog?

So testosterone seems to have done wonders for my fatigue which I'm really grateful for. However I often feel extremely emotional and almost on the verge of crying. Sometimes after working out, sometimes after sex, often after nothing at all. Has anybody got experience with anything similar...

www.excelmale.com

He should be well aware and why one would jump on an AI without seeing how the body will react to T only when first starting therapy is beyond me!

As long as one sticks to the most sensible piece of advice given when it comes to trt of starting low and going slow they should not need to take these drastic measures of jumping on an AI off the hop.

Unfortunately, when it comes to those dimes a dozen Tmills that prescribed absurd starting doses of T 200 mg/week combined with high doses of AI to control the S**T STORM about to come then one ends up wondering why they struggle on such protocol.

@trtthings

As I stated before many times on the forum in numerous threads whether one is starting trt or tweaking a protocol (increasing/decreasing dose T, injection frequency) hormones will be in FLUX during the weeks leading up until blood levels stabilize (4-6 weeks) and it is common for one to experience ups/downs (bumps) along the way.

Again once levels stabilize (4-6 weeks) it will take another 2-3 months for the body to adapt to those new levels.

Jacking up one's T levels of the hop is a sure-fire way to fail!

You need to relax and think about this more deeply.

 

[Charliebizz]

@trtthings this is like your 10th thread in a few weeks. You need to chill out my man. I know feeling like crap gets us all impatient. But the fact that your making so many threads in rapid succession tells me your going to have a ton of trouble with trt long term if you don't relax. @madman has given you great advice please try and listen too it for your own wellbeing.

 

[captain_j]

With being on test for just 4 weeks, I would imagine you still even have some endogenous testosterone floating around inside you. Once you're completely shutdown and your levels stabilize, then I'd get retested. Did you go to a TRT clinic that prescribed 200 mg a week? If so, good choice in dropping that down to 140 a week. My clinic started me off at 200 mg right off the bat, WITH anastrozole compounded into the oil (!). I took that crap for about 2 weeks and realized I was headed in a bad direction. Dialed back my protocol to 140 mg a week with no AI, and that had my E2 around 50-60. My problem was that when I took an AI at that dose, my E2 tended to drop too low. So for a brief period I went back to 200 mg test a week with 1 mg anastrozole a week, and that had my E2 "correct" on paper at around 27, but I didn't feel quite right. Point is, numbers aren't always everything. I'd say stick with the current protocol and unless you're getting gyno or something crazy, don't worry about raising the AI dose yet.

 

[trtthings]

@trtthings

As I stated before many times on the forum in numerous threads whether one is starting trt or tweaking a protocol (increasing/decreasing dose T, injection frequency) hormones will be in FLUX during the weeks leading up until blood levels stabilize (4-6 weeks) and it is common for one to experience ups/downs (bumps) along the way.

Again once levels stabilize (4-6 weeks) it will take another 2-3 months for the body to adapt to those new levels.

Jacking up one's T levels of the hop is a sure-fire way to fail!

You need to relax and think about this more deeply.

I agree but I spent 3 months on the gel and even at low levels my estradiol was high 50s and I felt like crap then as well. I've increased my anastrozole dosage past blood-test (perhaps erroneously) and I felt good for 2 days which is a first in months.

I may well need to lower the testosterone dosage, I will see at trough at week 6. Until then I may do a testosterone level check at trough to see if the level is insanely high.

 

[trtthings]

@madman @S1W @Cataceous

Are any of you guys doing EOD/have done and do you know what kind of levels you were getting on injection day post-injection? I just checked and the total testosterone was 1394 ng/dl. I'd like to see trough levels as well but that still seems much too high if the cypionate levels don't vary much doing EOD.

 

[Cataceous]

@madman @S1W @Cataceous

Are any of you guys doing EOD/have done and do you know what kind of levels you were getting on injection day post-injection? I just checked and the total testosterone was 1394 ng/dl. I'd like to see trough levels as well but that still seems much too high if the cypionate levels don't vary much doing EOD.

I never took such a post-injection measurement with longer esters. I'd expect a relatively muted rise on this EOD schedule. I saw little difference between testing immediately pre-injection and testing the day after an injection. With 28 mg T cypionate EOD I measured total serum testosterone of about 1,250 ng/dL. In comparison your 1,400 figure on 40 mg EOD does not seem high; it could reflect individual variation along with lower SHBG.

 

[trtthings]

I never took such a post-injection measurement with longer esters. I'd expect a relatively muted rise on this EOD schedule. I saw little difference between testing immediately pre-injection and testing the day after an injection. With 28 mg T cypionate EOD I measured total serum testosterone of about 1,250 ng/dL. In comparison your 1,400 figure on 40 mg EOD does not seem high; it could reflect individual variation along with lower SHBG.

Interesting, my SHBG is or was very high pre-TRT. I thought that would have more of an impact on free testosterone. The 1,250 ng/dl, has to have been post-injection on that dose though? Or was it pre/day after?

 

[Cataceous]

Interesting, my SHBG is or was very high pre-TRT. I thought that would have more of an impact on free testosterone. The 1,250 ng/dl, has to have been post-injection on that dose though? Or was it pre/day after?

Aside from SHBG, other potential variables include the underlying metabolic clearance rate and body weight.

I believe that most guys on TRT will see a pretty linear response in free testosterone to the dose of testosterone, independent of what their SHBG does. Total serum testosterone settles where it needs to for everything to be consistent. If SHBG stays constant then total testosterone may also appear to respond linearly to dose. Here's my calculated free T data versus dose:

That measurement of 1,250 ng/dL was the day after/before an injection. But if you look at all of my measurements collectively, any differences between pre-injection troughs and day-between measurements were too small to detect. From this I concluded that there's little variation with EOD dosing—at least for me, though I do suspect there are modest post-inject peaks occurring some hours after injections.

 

[trtthings]

I believe that most guys on TRT will see a pretty linear response in free testosterone to the dose of testosterone, independent of what their SHBG does. Total serum testosterone settles where it needs to for everything to be consistent. If SHBG stays constant then total testosterone may also appear to respond linearly to dose. Here's my calculated free T data versus dose:

Ahh, that's really interesting and what I was hoping to hear.

I'm well aware that this isn't sustainable, but after the test I took 1mg anastrozole, then another .5mg the next day, another 1mg after that, and .5mg today. First 4 days where I felt stable emotionally / good in general.

This ofc. might rock the boat regarding what T levels I am seeing etc., but I think the takeaway for me is that I need to reduce the testosterone dosage. I took another 40mg today so I am still on 140mg/wk, will measure total T on Monday to see it at trough (hopefully the anastrozole won't cloud it too bad).

After that I want to drop down to 120mg/wk at least. Would like to stick to EOD though as opposed to M/W/F. So that's somewhere around 1.7ml per injection of a 200mg/ml solution.

Edit: Might even go to 105mg/wk along with the prescribed 1.5mg anastrozole weekly. I don't seem to fare well with E2 above 30.

 

[trtthings]

Was at 1433 ng/dl at trough. With E2 at 15 pg/ml after 4 mg of anastrozole over 5 consecutive days.

I'm well aware that the amount of anastrozole will "mess up" stabilisation and potentially increase the testosterone. But I feel great at this level of E2, I'm sure it can afford to go up a bit but I feel horrible at the higher levels.

However I'm going to go down from 140mg/wk of cyp to 105 considering that this trough level is well over what I'd like to see, and try to pick a dose of anastrozole that I feel I can afford to take consistently.

 

[MarcoFL]

Was at 1433 ng/dl at trough. With E2 at 15 pg/ml after 4 mg of anastrozole over 5 consecutive days.

I'm well aware that the amount of anastrozole will "mess up" stabilisation and potentially increase the testosterone. But I feel great at this level of E2, I'm sure it can afford to go up a bit but I feel horrible at the higher levels.

However I'm going to go down from 140mg/wk of cyp to 105 considering that this trough level is well over what I'd like to see, and try to pick a dose of anastrozole that I feel I can afford to take consistently.

I am not judging you but IMO you are running your body through the wringer doing this. I am 58 years old 13% body fat been on TRT for 7 years. I have tried many doses from 100 to 180 per week. I am now back to 100 per week split MWF and dropping my AI. I did go on Life Extension Ultimate Prostate formula and it dropped my SHBG from 59 to 29 after a few months. I never had any issues on 180mg like hematocrit or other but just felt like too much. I have a friend right now all excited to be on T and getting carried away. I keep telling him it took him 50 years to get in bad shape take 5 years and fix it slowly! My 30 year old son went through a rough patch and put on 130 pounds! He took a year under doctor supervision and 2X per day with a trainer now down 110 pounds. This all take hard work and cannot fix it with double of what you really need to treat T. Sorry for the rambling of an older guy.