Testosterone Caused Horrible Water Retention

[Talon123]

So Nelson, what would someone do if they have the retention, yet don't show signs of high cortisol, estradiol, etc? I've always had this issue on trt and it's quite frustrating, I can't imagine it's healthy. I tried HCTZ but it exhausted me and only dealt with some of the water weight. When on 200 mg a week I had possible 20lbs of water, about 15 lbs on 100 mg, and even with topicals about 10 lbs.

Would you say that holding this water due to possibly 11b-HSD2 is bad for the body long term? Or is it mainly cosmetic? For the record I've tried test cyp, enanthate, topical gels, and creams. No matter where the estradiol is I blow up like a tick. My skins also takes on a grainy texture and I get bags under my eyes etc with more test. I'm not looking to run a cycle or go supraphysiological. I am however looking to make a normal dose of test work in trt without this side effect. Thanks for your knowledge and time Nelson!

 

[CoastWatcher]

Welcome to Excelmale. You said your TRT-associated labs don't show a problem when this presents itself. Has anything else been ruled out? What other medications are you taking?

 

[Nelson Vergel]

Here are excerpts from an interesting paper:

"This is the first controlled study demonstrating that testosterone increases extracellular water ECW. Previous data concerning the effects of testosterone on plasma volume (19, 20) and urinary sodium excretion (18, 21) are limited and conflicting. The underlying mechanism is unknown, but several possibilities exist. Testosterone could act directly on the kidney, because androgen receptors are expressed in renal tubules (31). There is evidence that androgens stimulate the expression of the angiotensinogen gene in the kidney (32, 33). Therefore, androgens could activate the local renal RAAS to stimulate sodium and water retention through an autocrine or paracrine mechanism (34). The epithelial sodium channel plays an important role in the sodium balance, as demonstrated by genetic abnormalities in its activity, such as in Liddle's syndrome (35). It has recently been reported that androgens increase mRNA expression of the α-subunit of the epithelial sodium channel in a human renal cell line (36), providing a potential mechanism of sodium and water retention by testosterone.

Plasma aldosterone Aldo levels fell significantly during testosterone treatment, whereas a modest fall, which failed to reach significance, occurred during GH treatment. During combined treatments, a significant fall in Aldo was also observed. The uniform trend toward a fall in Aldo levels observed with single and combined treatments suggests an adaptive response to ECW expansion. The observation that the fall in Aldo was greater in the presence of testosterone suggests that additional androgen-mediated mechanisms are probably involved. Androgen receptors have been identified in human adrenocortical cells and appear to exert an inhibitory influence. In vitro studies have demonstrated that testosterone reduced the proliferation of human adrenal adenoma and adrenocortical cancer cell lines (38). It is possible that testosterone directly suppresses Aldo biosynthesis or secretion, but this remains to be demonstrated.
More on aldosterone

The effects of testosterone on the volume and distribution of ECW could theoretically occur secondary to aromatization to estrogen in peripheral tissues. Estrogen may cause fluid retention through reduction of the plasma antidiuretic hormone (arginine vasopressin)-plasma osmolality set point (39, 40) or stimulating the synthesis of hepatic angiotensinogen (41), enhancing the overall activity of RAAS and leading to sodium retention. However, this postulate is not supported by the observation that urinary sodium excretion is increased during oral contraceptive use (42) or that the plasma renin concentration is reduced in women receiving estrogen treatment (43). Moreover, estrogen reduces the plasma renin concentration, the activity of angiotensin-converting enzyme, and the Aldo response to angiotensin II (44, 45). These actions of estrogen putatively generated from aromatization of androgens could explain the slight reduction in plasma Aldo levels in response to testosterone in our study." Source

I notice that I hold more water when I eat higher sodium foods, drink alcohol, and skip the gym for more than 3 days. Higher simple carb intake also worsens water retention (glucose and insulin spikes can cause water retention). I weigh myself every morning. If I am not careful, I can gain 3-4 pounds of water in 1 or 2 days. Not drinking enough water also makes the body retain water. My kidney function (eGFR) is good (80).

I think decreasing sodium and sweets intake, increasing water consumption, and doing some cardio are ways to control water weight. If it gets bad, the use of a diuretic only once can stabilize this issue during days were I go off the wagon at my family's parties.

Testosterone increases water retention in hypogonadal men by affecting kidneys

The effects of growth hormone (GH) on sodium retention and extracellular fluid (ECF) are well established. The mechanisms are not clear but are thought to involve the GH/IGF-I (insulin-like growth factor I) axis. Men and women differ in their ECF and this contributes to men’s higher fat-free...

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How many of you are on diuretics for water retention on TRT?

How many of you guys are on Diuretics for face bloat/water retention issues on TRT? Assuming Estradiol is within a good range. What is your experience and what did you use? Are there any that dont require a perscription? Do you take it everyday forever? Anyone increased there dosage from...

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[hva]

Drink more water. Like a lot more water. I just dropped 10lbs of water weight by drinking at least a gallon or more of water a day with no change in diet. I literally went from 210lbs to 200lbs. There's no way I lost that much fat in two weeks. It was all just retained water. I went from looking like a bloated toad to having my abs peak through a bit.

 

[Talon123]

Thanks guys. Yes all labs show nothing negative. Even blood pressure is fine, along side kidney, liver, metabolic, etc. Estradiol has been completely normal and even tanked and still holding the water weight. It's worth noting the water isn't within the muscle tissue but in the skin making around 8 percent bodyfat look more 14 ish.

In response to the water consumption I actually work as a personal trainer and regularly consume a gallon plus. I however have tried lower amounts of water intake which does seem to help by a pound or two, however dehydration is not something I'm willing to participate in chronically for only a slight benefit to this issue. My activity includes five day every week in the gym with an hour plus strength training as well as 30 minutes a day of cardio five days a week. I do not consume alcohol.

I take no other medications, and also eat a pretty low sodium diet as well. I've gone through low carb diets as well as even fasted for two days to see what would happen. I lost glycogen within the muscle tissue, however the bloating persisted. From what I understand this just happens to about 20 percent of men on trt correct?

 

[fitnessguy]

Do you take creatine by chance?

 

[Talon123]

I do not use creatine

 

[Nelson Vergel]

Talon123

Have you had a full cardiovascular work-up by a cardiologist? Can you post your CBC and CMP here?

 

[ScottM]

Second this, do you have any labs you can post at all?

Also, is this water retention spread throughout the entire body? Or is it concentrated in any areas like hands/feet/etc?

What is your body weight when you wake up vs when you go to bed?

Do you monitor your LBW, Fat %, etc? Can you share those.

Thanks,
Scott
Telthera

 

[Talon123]

Sure. All metabolic and bloods have been fine including thyroid etc. I've taken a screenshot of the results, how do I post? Am I unable to attach the files becusse im on mobile? The water retention appears to be mainly in my torso. Not much of anything in my limbs. I am about twelve percent bodyfat. My wake up weight is 191 and my weight is about 196 when going to bed. I'd imagine I'm really about 181-186 at bed, the rest of it is water retention. Thank you guys again for your time

 

[Talon123]

I'd like to bump this thread to figure out how to post labs. Again, they show test and e2 in range. Nothing off range in bloodwork either, no even hematocrit

 

[tylermax]

I'd like to bump this thread to figure out how to post labs. Again, they show test and e2 in range. Nothing off range in bloodwork either, no even hematocrit

Did you get to the bottom of this as I am struggling with the same and considering just plain quitting trt. I had a chisselled face and workout 5 times a week, good cardio but nothing seemed to help even with the ai and all. I wish we had a solution.

 

[Nelson Vergel]

Tylermax

Please remind us what you are taking, how much weight you have gained, etc.

 

[tylermax]

I take 200 mg Test E pw, arimidex 0.5 mg EOD, increased from twice a week cause I was bloating still.

The only thing that helped was Nolvadex for 1 week at 20 mg on top of these.

 

[madman]

I take 200 mg Test E pw, arimidex 0.5 mg EOD, increased from twice a week cause I was bloating still.

The only thing that helped was Nolvadex for 1 week at 20 mg on top of these.

What is your SHBG and where do your TT/FT and e2 (sensitive assay) levels sit on such dose 200 mg/week?

 

[tylermax]

What is your SHBG and where do your TT/FT and e2 (sensitive assay) levels sit on such dose 200 mg/week?

i will be getting labs next week and will post.

 

[Nelson Vergel]

How many of you are on Diuretics for water retention onTRT?

 

[Nelson Vergel]

Why can testosterone increase water retention?

TESTOSTERONE EFFECTS ON BODY WATER
The pioneers in the androgen field recognized that
testosterone administration in androgen-deficient
men and in healthy women was associated with significant
retention of sodium, chloride, and potassium,
sulfur and phosphate (Knowlton et al, 1942;
Wilson 1996). Knowlton et al. (1942) reported that
much of the early weight gain could be accounted
for by water retention in association with retained
electrolytes and protein. When administration of
androgen is stopped, sodium, potassium, and water
are lost quickly (Knowlton et al, 1942; Wilson
1996). Significant water retention resulting in edema
is unusual in healthy, hypogonadal men, who
are receiving replacement doses of testosterone.
However, supraphysiologic doses of testosterone
can result in edema and exacerbate heart failure
when given to men with pre-existing heart or kidney
disease. In clinical trials of testosterone replacement
in older men (Snyder et al, 1999; Sih et al,
1997, Tenover 1998; Kenny et al, 2001), the frequency
of edema and congestive heart failure in
testosterone-treated men has been very low.

Source:

Regulation of body composition by androgens
S. Bhasin. J. Endocrinol. Invest. 26: 814-822, 2003

 

[Nelson Vergel]

Preventing Water Retention (Face & Chest)

 

[Nelson Vergel]

Water Retention While on TRT May Only Occur to Certain Men

ABSTRACT The human body can be viewed simplistically as being composed of fat-free and fat mass. With more sophisticated techniques, body composition can be broken down into fat mass, skeletal muscle mass, nonmuscle lean mass, visceral mass, and bone mineral content. Similarly, it is possible...

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