Water Retention from HCG

[one way step]

I've been on TRT for years, combining test cyp, hcg, and arimidex.

Back in May, I began developing the side effect of water retention from HCG. I was taking 500iu per week. My face would swell and my chest would swell as well, both very noticable. I eventually dropped the HCG and no longer have the problem now that I am on just test cyp and arimidex.

But now the problem is my sex drive isn't all that great. The hCG really gave it a great boost, with better erections and more predictability in my ability to get it up. I would like to add the hCG back but attempts to do so have brought back the major swelling issue. I think it also causes me to gain weight.

I've tried adding 250iu and 125iu per week in the past two months and, while getting the sex drive improvement I need, it caused these major side effects. I had taken hCG for years and this was the first time I had experienced this.

Anyone else ever deal with this? How can I prevent this?

 

[CoastWatcher]

What are your testosterone and E2 levels? Do you have recent labwork? Any swelling in your extremities? Problems with blood pressure?

 

[one way step]

I have the doctor this upcoming week so I dont have any current bloodwork.

The swelling is only in the chest and face, and there appears to be weight gain in my stomach as well. No swelling anywhere else. No blood pressure issues.

 

[Gene Devine]

HCG is best taken in smaller doses more frequently.

In fact, Dr. John Crisler likes his guys on 100 to 125 iu's daily.

I've been going 125 iu daily each morning for years now and think it really jacks up my sex drive...if that's even possible LOL

Give it a shot and see how you feel...you really need HCG when on TRT for many many reasons that we've discussed here at length.

 

[one way step]

The issue is the water retention. I get great benefits from hCG but now for whatever reason it causes this side effect, even when I have taken just 125iu.

 

[Vince Carter]

For many guys HCG complicates Estrogen management and that's what you're experiencing. Little known fact, the T to E conversion that happens in the testes, the organ youre stimulating with HCG, is not via the aromatase enzyme and is not affected by Anastrozole. Some men, like me, just don't like HCG or never find a dose or frequency that they can live with. At one-time I was using 100iu 2x a week just to keep my nuts alive as that is important for a host of reasons. But when it comes to sex drive, erections, a feeling of well being, HCG has never done that for me in any dose or combination.

 

[Vince]

The issue is the water retention. I get great benefits from hCG but now for whatever reason it causes this side effect, even when I have taken just 125iu.

My question would be, how do you know the water retention is from hcg? http://patrickarnoldblog.com/hypertension-and-anabolic-steroids-a-new-pathway/


Good excerpt that explains another mechanism for water retention that has nothing to do with estradiol increases:

" ...So it's often thought that an anabolic steroids propensity for water retention is related to its potency both as an androgen and as an estrogen (manifested via aromatization to estrogenic metabolites).Confusion has often arisen however when people have noticed that some steroids – which traditional thinking tells us should not result in extraordinary water retention – end up doing just that. Steroids that should not aromatize to estrogens such as oxymetholone (anadrol) and methyl-1-testosterone are known to result in extreme water retention in some individuals. A recent paper* suggests a heretofore unmentioned explanation for this."

 

[Re-Ride]

Hi O.W.S., Do you mind telling us your history with hCG? What pharma is supplying the hCG now? Have you tried switching brands?

 

[one way step]

I take American Pharmaceutical Product's brand HCG which I get at my local pharmacy. I have taken this brand on and off since 2008.

I used to be on hcg mono therapy but then went to test cyp, eventually adding hcg and arimidex to the mix. Never had this water retention issue til this year.

 

[Re-Ride]

Try Novarel. APP is reputable but who knows. What was your regimen on hCG mono? How much were you able to boost T? Did the effectiveness taper off? Why did you discontinue mono?

 

[Gene Devine]

Water retention on TRT is almost always a estrogen issue.

As Vince noted, HCG usually in larger doses, can increase intratesticular E2 which an AI is largely not capable of managing.

You could be estrogen dominate when it comes to HCG and you see this with its use and subsequent water retention.

All of this is speculation of course and needs to be supported with blood work to confirm.

 

[one way step]

My hcg mono routine was 2500iu 3x per week. I had great results for a year then It eventually stopped working efficiently so I switched over to test.

I still am scratching my head as to why this water retention just arbitrarily developed now from hcg. I used to have the opposite problem; hcg gave me a good metabolism with NO swelling

 

[Gene Devine]

My hcg mono routine was 2500iu 3x per week. I had great results for a year then It eventually stopped working efficiently so I switched over to test.

I still am scratching my head as to why this water retention just arbitrarily developed now from hcg. I used to have the opposite problem; hcg gave me a good metabolism with NO swelling

You need blood work to see what's going on...everything else is just speculation.

 

[Re-Ride]

I wonder how you would have done if you had dropped down to 250-500 IU EOD after the initial boost.

I do not understand why "high intra-testicular estrogen" is of any concern. Whatever E2 leaves the testes will be dealt with by AI.

It would be great to know why some men experience a decreasing benefit on hCG mono. The hCG receptors associated with the CNS are strongly suspect in the initial, often powerful, boost to mood cognition, and libido that many report. As theorized, it is the CNS LH receptors which had been starved responding strongly at first. This says nothing of LH receptors in the Leydigs which are responsible for T production.

The hCG Antibody Theory
Two small studies in the early 1980's reported a finding of "developing hCG antibodies" in a few men that the researchers attributed to loss of hCG effectiveness. The discussion of last two decades has been on theoretical Leydig cell fatigue, damage or "down-regulation" based on rat rather than human studies. The first two are a web myth. It's also theorized that excess intra-testicular progesterone from high dose hCG causes the "down-regulation" of the Leydigs.

 

[Vince Carter]

For many guys HCG complicates Estrogen management and that's what you're experiencing. Little known fact, the T to E conversion that happens in the testes, the organ youre stimulating with HCG, is not via the aromatase enzyme and is not affected by Anastrozole. Some men, like me, just don't like HCG or never find a dose or frequency that they can live with. At one-time I was using 100iu 2x a week just to keep my nuts alive as that is important for a host of reasons. But when it comes to sex drive, erections, a feeling of well being, HCG has never done that for me in any dose or combination.

It's easy to understand. You can't take an aromatase inhibitor to affect conversion that is not thru the enzyme.

 

[Re-Ride]

A lot of folks (incorrectly) think of AI as "knocking down E2". I had high serum E2 during hCG mono that was quickly dealt with by anastrozole. Apparently little or no serum E2 was of intra-testicular origin. At 4,000 IU/dose I certainly should have seen it if it was an issue.

 

[HarryCat]

Little known fact, the T to E conversion that happens in the testes, the organ youre stimulating with HCG, is not via the aromatase enzyme

You may want to give this a read through:

Aromatase in testis: Expression and role in male reproduction

 

[one way step]

I don't have any plan to go back on hCG mono. Being as I will have to be on TRT for life, I will be sticking with test cyp and any additions to maximize how I feel.


I don't know how to eliminate this issue of water retention with hCG. Maybe taking arimidex the same day as hCG?

 

[one way step]

So I got blood work this past Wednesday, one day after taking 200mg test cyp (no hcg or ai)

Test:950
E2: 45

So obviously the e2 is a major issue. Should I rearrange when I take my ai to combat this?

 

[Gene Devine]

So I got blood work this past Wednesday, one day after taking 200mg test cyp (no hcg or ai)

Test:950
E2: 45

So obviously the e2 is a major issue. Should I rearrange when I take my ai to combat this?

Did you use the "Sensitive" estrogen lab for this serum value?

If not, it's useless as the standard default lab designed for women over estimates values in men and your boys.