I thought with prop you would notice libido changes quickly since the short half life, like within a day or two. I injected 8mg two days ago and can confidently say it had no perceivable effect. It should have spiked my blood levels and then dropped back down - normally you would "feel" something because of that change, no?
Test prop, not feeling anything? How long to notice libido changes?
- Thread starter WayneP
- Start date
With 8 mg given on an EOD basis, I would say your more likely to feel worse off then if you weren’t on TRT.
I wouldn’t suggest to increase the dosage if you just started. 8 mg ED is fine to start with. I was saying that 8 mg EOD of Prop is certainly not a good protocol.
Vince
Super Moderator
I agree, that dose may be just too low. Get some labs after six weeks. I bet you’ll have to increase your dose.
Vince
Super Moderator
How long does TRT take to show effects?
A review of studies attempted to determine the time-course of the effects induced by testosterone replacement therapy from their first manifestation until maximum effects are attained. Causes of Low Testosterone and Benefits of Treatment This review found that: · Effects on sexual...
www.excelmale.com
Wayne,
I recently started as well and Vince's link was very useful to me in helping gauge my expectations. I'm on Test Cyp and taking 100 mg / week so my protocol is different than yours but I noticed an upturn in my libido about the 3rd week. I'm coming up on my first labs since I started later this month and my expectation is that my dosage will increase (just my WAG but I'm guessing 120/wk) and I also plan to space my injections out from once to 2x or 3x / week since even at this early state in my protocol I can tell when I'm "due" for another injection.
I recently started as well and Vince's link was very useful to me in helping gauge my expectations. I'm on Test Cyp and taking 100 mg / week so my protocol is different than yours but I noticed an upturn in my libido about the 3rd week. I'm coming up on my first labs since I started later this month and my expectation is that my dosage will increase (just my WAG but I'm guessing 120/wk) and I also plan to space my injections out from once to 2x or 3x / week since even at this early state in my protocol I can tell when I'm "due" for another injection.
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TorontoTRT
Active Member
This is wrong. There’s no equivalency between natural production and exogenous testosterone. For some reason 8 mg injected would not be the same as 8 mg natural. Even 10 mg injected to take into effect ester.
Are you seeing a doctor? It took me 9 months to a year to figure out the right protocol for me, getting blood tests along the way and making adjustments. And even 2 years after that I was still making adjustments (and am still now).
The T can also have downstream effects on Estrogen, which can be as bad when it's high as when it's low. If you don't know what that's doing, and how much (or if) you need to be taking an inhibitor, you may be flying blind.
Plus it can have other effects on your system. And you may need to take supplements or stuff to offset that.
I'm not trying to talk you into going to a doctor (it's still a free country and you can do whatever you'd like) but if you're not working with someone or at least getting all the panels to see what's happening, you might just be making the process tougher on yourself.
And to answer the question about libido, mine never came back completely. I'm at about 50% desire, and only now realize how high a sex drive and how capable I was in bed. I was still seeing sexual improvement at least 3 years in. But being on TRT has, without a doubt, helped me reclaim at least some of what I was missing and improved my sleep, body fat, muscle, and night sweat issues.
Can you produce any evidence to support this claim? Saying "For some reason" doesn't cut it. Once it's in the blood, exogenous testosterone is indistinguishable from endogenous testosterone, as far as the body is concerned. The differences are elsewhere: in the magnitude and variation of serum testosterone, in the suppression of upstream hormones by exogenous testosterone, etc. Most guys on TRT are overdosing. Daily natural production is in the range of 3-9 mg. For exogenous dosing this can be increased by 20-25% if there's no diurnal variation, and further adjusted for excess body weight. But it still ends up less than what's typical for TRT.
blinblaugh
New Member
I don't think he's saying 8 mg injected equals 8 mg natural. Also, agreeing with @Cataceous that it's not a great idea to say "This is wrong" and then not back it up.
I knew you'd be all over this comment. Lol.
I think your way low at 8MG @ day that's only 56MG @ wk I've never dropped below 100MG per wk and that's not a number that makes your libido really noticeable to get that I need over 140 and as high as 180MG cypionate and prop is the same except for the timing of the peak.
This guy is not wrong, the body has to cleave off the ester weight in order to use it and it's not metabolized the same in every person, why else would you have so many different men on so many different dose amounts. If it was 1 for 1 then every man could theroetically have to use the same identical amount and get the same exact result from the same exact dose.
It can take many pathways either through 5a-reductase to DHT , or direct to muscle pathways to androgen receptors or through aromatase or even through hepatic oxidation.
It's been proven to not be true wiith the studies on dose response relationship, there are variables within those studies.
tropicaldaze1950
Well-Known Member
I've been all over with low dose, moderate dose, high dose, subq, IM; daily, weekly, E3.5D, EOD, morning, afternoon, evening. Erectile function was always poor, libido high, to the point of being annoying and frustrating. No better with or without an AI.
I believe the one thing we can agree on is that it's more complicated than a particular dose with a particular dosing schedule and for patients who are outliers, we present a challenge to the doctors who want to help us. But, I would tend to agree that 8mg EOD is too small a dose. 8 mg, daily, would at least be a starting point. And stay on that dose for 6 weeks or maybe longer, depending on how you're feeling and functioning.
I believe the one thing we can agree on is that it's more complicated than a particular dose with a particular dosing schedule and for patients who are outliers, we present a challenge to the doctors who want to help us. But, I would tend to agree that 8mg EOD is too small a dose. 8 mg, daily, would at least be a starting point. And stay on that dose for 6 weeks or maybe longer, depending on how you're feeling and functioning.
what did you find worked best for you?
tropicaldaze1950
Well-Known Member
None of the protocols I listed. At the most, I'd have a momentary improvement and, like a moving target, it would disappear. My focus, now, is on thyroid. My urologist came to suspect that there might be central hypothyroidism or cellular thyroid resistance, since I'd gained 35 pounds over several years, was chronically depressed and of course, erectile dysfunction. Next week I have a virtual consult with a psychiatrist whose work is focused on thyroid and mood disorders. I have treatment resistant bipolar illness. 15 years of treatment failures. This might be the last hope for me.
I've been on thyroid meds for yrs with trt, I saw nor felt any difference? how about you?
tropicaldaze1950
Well-Known Member
Which medication, leyothyroxine, liothyronine or desiccated? The big IF in this is that doctors who judge 'success' by labs only could be shortchanging patients by dosing according to those labs, not symptoms or how the patient is feeling or functioning. I've read this for years. And the doctor I'm consulting with is one of the pioneers in using high dose liothyronine for mood disorders. He writes that labs don't reveal cellular resistance to thyroid hormone. If the patient has psych and/or physical symptoms, even if previous labs look 'good', likely, hormone resistance.
Most endocrinologists are useless. They're by the book and don't want to look beyond what they've learned in their training and even if they treat, it's conservative. Not helping that patient. Maybe your thyroid dose is fine and there might some other issues but it's worth exploring the possibility that your dose is okay for labs only. One more possibility which I've read about; parathyroid gland malfunction. Two major issues;sleep problems and sexual dysfunction in men and women. Again, most doctors NEVER order a lab for PTH level. It's not even on their radar. Research all that I've discussed. It's better if you read up on those topics. I'm just another soul in search of a path that will lead to restoring my health and life.
Most endocrinologists are useless. They're by the book and don't want to look beyond what they've learned in their training and even if they treat, it's conservative. Not helping that patient. Maybe your thyroid dose is fine and there might some other issues but it's worth exploring the possibility that your dose is okay for labs only. One more possibility which I've read about; parathyroid gland malfunction. Two major issues;sleep problems and sexual dysfunction in men and women. Again, most doctors NEVER order a lab for PTH level. It's not even on their radar. Research all that I've discussed. It's better if you read up on those topics. I'm just another soul in search of a path that will lead to restoring my health and life.
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