My friends response to testosterone prop, how is this even possible?

[equel]

Friend of mine got his doctor to put him on testosterone propionate doing ED injections due to low shbg. Due to the very short half life, he tested his levels with a 10 day interval.

His SHBG is ranging from 15-18.


First trial, 20mg prop ED
Testosterone total: 98nmol (8-30), converted this is: 2826.516ng/dl

Second trial, 10mg prop ED
Testosterone total: 40nmol (8-30), converted this is: 1153.68ng/dl

Third trial, 6mg prop ED
Testosterone total: 26nmol (8-30), converted this is: 749.892ng/dl


Tests were done about 6 hours after injection, each time. Ive seen the papers confirming it.



Has anyone ever heard of anything like this? 20 prop ED basically gives him the levels of a full blown test cycle, 10mg ED is high too. He has to do very very small dosages ED to not go out of the high-end.


How is this even possible? Is it due to the low SHBG or what?

 

[Systemlord]

Your friend's testosterone levels are sufficiently elevated for the fact that he is on the appropriate protocol given his SHBG level. Sure your friends SHBG are on the lower side, but you haven't considered the bind force of your friends SHBG, don't think for a second that everyone binds androgens equally.

I attempted a 10mg daily protocol and felt like it was way too much for me, my SHBG is very similar to your friends, mine fluctuates between 16-22 as a matter of fact.

 

[Vince Carter]

Why test 6hrs post injection, this is contrary to the norm even for prop or low SHBG daily shots. Of course he has high numbers 6hrs later, any and every guy on a similar daily shot and test 6hrs later would have very high numbers.

Though I'm keenly interested in looking at things as a peak number vs a trough I'm curious why he's doing it.

 

[Vince Carter]

In the end it looks strange because he's doing it wrong, it's as simple as that.

 

[fifty]

True. At 6hrs he’s probably 1000 then at 24hrs he’s 300.

 

[equel]

No, doesnt seem like levels plummet that fast.

 

[equel]

In the end it looks strange because he's doing it wrong, it's as simple as that.

Doing it "wrong", why?

 

[mooseman109]

I personally would test just before the injection, his trough. This is what I do and I am daily, though on Cypionate. As well his Total T is not really relavant given his shbg. Test his free T, this is what will matter to him. His total may be way high, but free may be normal, or even low.

 

[Systemlord]

Doing it "wrong", why?

You are not considering the half lives of Test cypionate which takes 6 weeks to build up in your system, drawing labs halfway through this process is problematic, levels are expected to be high in 6 weeks time.

 

[equel]

You are not considering the half lives of Test cypionate which takes 6 weeks to build up in your system, drawing labs halfway through this process is problematic, levels are expected to be high in 6 weeks time.

Im sorry but I do not follow what you say at all. This is testosterone propionate.

 

[equel]

I personally would test just before the injection, his trough. This is what I do and I am daily, though on Cypionate. As well his Total T is not really relavant given his shbg. Test his free T, this is what will matter to him. His total may be way high, but free may be normal, or even low.

Just asked about free T, he didnt know numbers as he is not home but it was "sky high way out of range" on the first 2 tests.

 

[fifty]

No, doesnt seem like levels plummet that fast.

Ok so they skyrocket to 12hrs then plummet at 25hrs instead of 24hrs

 

[equel]

Ok so they skyrocket to 12hrs then plummet at 25hrs instead of 24hrs

What are you even talking about? He inject every 24h, daily, that means it never "plummet".

 

[fifty]

He is testing 6hrs post injection.

You think his levels’ rise and fall will automatically mimic some graph you found on google images? If that’s true then take your friend’s numbers and double them. Some guys’ levels drop quickly on prop.

 

[Gman86]

Sometimes propionate doesn’t “plummet” as quickly as the half life research tells us. For example, for 2.5 months I was injecting 17.5mg ED of testosterone propionate only (122.5mg/ week). My SHBG was 63. I had labs done 34 hours after my last 17.5mg injection. Basically 1.5 days. My total T was 1423.

So SHBG, and how quickly someone processes the testosterone clearly plays a role.

 

[equel]

He is testing 6hrs post injection.

You think his levels’ rise and fall will automatically mimic some graph you found on google images? If that’s true then take your friend’s numbers and double them. Some guys’ levels drop quickly on prop.

"Mimic some graph you found on google images", am I talking to a child here? These graphs are based on actual scientific studies, Ive currently found 3 different studies on propionate, all showing the same thing, they do NOT plummet within the first 24 hours, he injects every day the same time, so before they plummet, he inject again.

Ive never heard of anyone dropping quickly on prop, please provide some scientific evidence of your claim. Most bodybuilders who do cycles of prop even inject EOD, as they find levels to be stable enough for 2 days.

 

[equel]

Sometimes propionate doesn’t “plummet” as quickly as the half life research tells us. For example, for 2.5 months I was injecting 17.5mg ED of testosterone propionate only (122.5mg/ week). My SHBG was 63. I had labs done 34 hours after my last 17.5mg injection. Basically 1.5 days. My total T was 1423.

So SHBG, and how quickly someone processes the testosterone clearly plays a role.

Yeah, for sure.

 

[Vince Carter]

SHBG negates the half-life. Even daily prop has a peak, and a trough. I think you're trying to make some connection to stable levels as though it's level across the day which is categorically not true. There is an up, and then a down for Test levels in the 24hrs. It is not stable and is not "level" through that time. Testing at 6hrs shows the peak, his levels tested @ 24hrs, right before his next injection is when you test.

 

[Cataceous]

This is what daily propionate looks like if you assume the exact single-dose response curve given by @equel above:

 

[Vince Carter]

This is what daily propionate looks like if you assume the exact single-dose response curve given by @equel above:

Without a factor for SHBG this is just lab pharmacological(?) hooey that isn't relevant IRL.