SubQ vs IM and E2

[eli]

I'm still not getting the answer to this question...


Does taking testosterone subq lower E2 or not ???

I've came across people who have seen an increase in their E2 when they started to administer their testosterone via SubQ.... by SubQ, I mean injecting oil into glutes or thighs pinching the skin and injecting under it with a 29g 3/8'' or 5/16''

 

[ERO]

It used to be assumed that SubQ converted more to E2 than IM because you are injecting into fat instead of muscle, but that has not been supported by facts or by most guys experiences. Many if not most of us here do SubQ and have no E2 issues.

 

[dallas101346]

for me subQ produced a higher E2

 

[canatct]

subq produced higher E2 levels for me vs IM. Also lower total and free T on subq.

 

[eli]

confused why some drs say their patients notice an E2 decrease with SubQ

so you guys all got bloodwork done to confirm this ?

 

[CoastWatcher]

confused why some drs say their patients notice an E2 decrease with SubQ

so you guys all got bloodwork done to confirm this ?

Bloodwork, on a regular basis, is the only basis on which to evaluate E2 levels. While subjective feelings are important, one must only make changes after obtaining objective results.

 

[canatct]

confused why some drs say their patients notice an E2 decrease with SubQ

so you guys all got bloodwork done to confirm this ?

Blood work every 4 weeks.
IM yielded total T @ 725+, above range free T , and E2 that didn't require an AI.
Switched to subq and watched total and free T steadily drop over a 2 month period and E2 rose to highest level ever.
I wanted so bad to do subq as I don't like the idea of scar tissue associated with IM, but I'm just one of the guys that can't.

 

[Vince]

eli, here's a post you may like to read https://www.excelmale.com/forum/showthread.php?3710-Disappointed-with-subq-bw-Anastrozole-question

 

[Nelson Vergel]

Most of the aromatization of testosterone into estradiol happens in the liver. I truly do not think there is a big difference in estradiol blood levels when using subcutaneous versus IM injections. However, I would like to see data on that (none available right now).

 

[eli]

eli, here's a post you may like to read

Thanks, so I guess you do trt IM ?

 

[eli]

Most of the aromatization of testosterone into estradiol happens in the liver. I truly do not think there is a big difference in estradiol blood levels when using subcutaneous versus IM injections. However, I would like to see data on that (none available right now).

based on my research from multiple forums (either bodybuilding or trt forums) there are some people who indeed aromatize more doing TRT subQ

vince provided an example thread

this is another one

http://forums.steroid.com/hormone-r...ison-between-100mg-test-sub-q-im-labwork.html

 

[James]

It seems sub q has really increased in popularity. I'm a IM guy myself.

 

[Vince]

Thanks, so I guess you do trt IM ?

I inject in my shoulders using Nelson's protocol, it's the way I like to inject shallow IM. The best method is whatever somone feels comfortable with and it has to work https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0uXoBb6mkys

 

[Tommy Wall]

I alter between those 2 ways with no problems.

 

[eli]

I inject in my shoulders using Nelson's protocol, it's the way I like to inject shallow IM. The best method is whatever somone feels comfortable with and it has to work https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0uXoBb6mkys

I really think that's IM... Nelson seems like a lean guy in his video.

but I will get bloods in 3 - 4 weeks and will update everyone. Doing SubQ now

 

[Jk78]

Eli,

I don't have an IM comparison, but my pre-trt Total T was 334, sensitive E2=9.

5 weeks after 50mg test cyp subq in thigh 2x per week.
Total T =955, sensitive E2=32.

 

[Dr.V.P.C.]

I did 6 months TRT exclusively with SC cyp.
Yes, aromatization rate was lower .
But after month 4 , lump formations became worst each time so i had to quit.

 

[Helboi]

I'm going to be trying out subQ with my T shots starting this week after having done IM for 8 months. I'm hoping it doesn't' send things into a tailspin as I feel things are going pretty well, though still not perfect, right now. Worried about the E2 issue as well as a drop in T levels.

 

[eli]

For some reason I aromitize more with Sub Q

Trying Nelson's shoulder protocol now, will get blood work soon to see how I am doing.

 

[testlar17]

Kaminetsky J, Jaffe JS, Swerdloff RS. Pharmacokinetic Profile of Subcutaneous testosterone Enanthate Delivered via a Novel, Prefilled Single-Use Autoinjector: A Phase II Study. Sexual Medicine. http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/sm2.80/full

Introduction Hypogonadism is one of the most common male endocrine problems. Although many treatments are currently available, unmet need exists for new testosterone (T) replacement therapies that are simple to administer and use, are safe, and mimic physiologic T levels.

Aim The study aim was to determine the pharmacokinetics (PK), safety, and tolerability of T enanthate (TE) administered via a novel single-use autoinjector system, which was designed to eject high-viscosity solutions from a prefilled syringe fitted with a five-eighths-inch 27-gauge needle.

Methods Thirty-nine men with hypogonadism entered this dose-finding, open-label, parallel-group study. Patients were washed out of their topical T regimens and randomized to receive 50 or 100 mg of subcutaneous (SC) TE weekly. The reference group were patients with hypogonadism who were maintained on standard 200-mg intramuscular (IM) TE.

Main Outcome Measure The primary outcome measure was the PK profile of SC TE, analyzed in reference to T levels used by the Food and Drug Administration to approve T products. Secondary outcome measures were safety and tolerability assessments.

Results Both doses of SC TE achieved normal average concentrations of serum T within a 168-h dosing interval after injection. Concentration ranges were similar at all time points following 50-mg SC TE injections and following the third injection in the 100-mg arm. Mean steady-state T concentration at week 6 was 422.4 and 895.5 ng/dL for the 50- and 100-mg SC TE arms, respectively. SC TE demonstrated PK dose proportionality. SC TE restored normal serum T with low variation relative to 200-mg IM without clinically significant adverse events.

Conclusions Administration of TE via this novel injection system restored T levels to normal range in men with hypogonadism. SC TE dosed weekly demonstrated steady, dose-proportional measures of exposure and was well-tolerated.