Receptor desensitization?

[krm]

Hi all, just wanted to check on another statement of my (pretty useless) endo -
he said, a big risk of taking testosterone is receptor desensitization, and as with any other drug "you'll need to increase doses the longer you take it".

Never heard of it and don't believe it - but just to double-check, is there a grain of truth in this statement?

 

[Systemlord]

That sounds like a broad statement without any real clarity, sounds like this doctor is talking about supraphysiological doses, not levels in the normal ranges.

The majority of endo's are profoundly TRT ignorant and so I wouldn't really pay attention anything they are telling me in the same way I wouldn't get my tax advice from a DMV employee.

 

[lowe2sucks]

for some trt stopps working after few years but not sure if increasing dosage actually solves this problem for me personally would make me feel worse lol
read this TRT Not Working for 20 Years
TRT Not Working Anymore
Why did TRT work ... and then stop?
https://thinksteroids.com/community/threads/trt-stopped-working.134265704/
i never felt as good on perfect trt as when my natural t was fine..

 

[Vitamin_C]

You can't really validate the claim that "TRT stopped working for me" that some may claim. TRT is not panacea, if you are not dieting or exercising, if you are drinking alcohol in excess or smoking etc TRT isn't going to save you from your poor lifestyle . We have no way to validate the "TRT stopped working for me" guys at all, don't know their lifestyle or diet habits or anything. As for the receptor desensitization, I've never hear this at all, so this means that guys with naturally high levels of testosterone are going to have receptor desensitization ?

 

[lowe2sucks]

Agreed the topic actually is about receptor decensitization I actually realized what I wrote has nothing to do with what krm was asking for
to vitamin_c i recently found out i am a bit on bipolar spectrum and sometimes trt did trigger manic phase so when it end I think trt is not working for me (high e2 usually would end manic while low estrogen would trigger it). my mistake for not clarifying it

 

[madman]

You can't really validate the claim that "TRT stopped working for me" that some may claim. TRT is not panacea, if you are not dieting or exercising, if you are drinking alcohol in excess or smoking etc TRT isn't going to save you from your poor lifestyle . We have no way to validate the "TRT stopped working for me" guys at all, don't know their lifestyle or diet habits or anything. As for the receptor desensitization, I've never hear this at all, so this means that guys with naturally high levels of testosterone are going to have receptor desensitization ?

If anything highly unlikely that trt doses would cause receptor desensitization.

Doses used to achieve testosterone levels well into the supra-physiological range when using/abusing testosterone for bodybuilding purposes could lead to AR (androgen receptor) down regulation.

I have heard Dr. Crisler state that there have been cases of former bodybuilders who need higher doses of trt to be effective and Dr. Saya in a previous thread has mentioned that there could be a possibility of receptor desensitization when testosterone levels are constantly (steady state) in the supra-physiological range.

When you state " I've never hear this at all, so this means that guys with naturally high levels of testosterone are going to have receptor desensitization?

Comparing the natural 24 hr circadian rhythm of a healthy young males endogenous testosterone production to one using exogenous testosterone is not the same.

Most healthy young males even in the upper 2.5% do not have natural endogenous testosterone levels well into the supra-physiological range.

If anything on average most healthy young men have levels in the 600-800 ng/dL range and the ones in the upper 2.5% ( 1000ng/dl+).

 

[RPellerin]

Dr. Nichols on the TOT round table does talk about testosterone sensitivity, saying the phenomenon is similar to insulin sensitivity. Indicating higher doses of test are required to alleviate symptoms.

 

[krm]

Would be interesting to know if "higher" doses mean standard TRT doses (let's say, >250mg/week) or if we're talking the obscene gram-a-week- doses some bodybuilders abuse...

 

[madman]

Would be interesting to know if "higher" doses mean standard TRT doses (let's say, >250mg/week) or if we're talking the obscene gram-a-week- doses some bodybuilders abuse...

Standard trt doses are on average 100-150 mg/week which would put most mens TT in a range to achieve a healthy FT.

Sure some do need higher weekly doses and need to run a higher TT usually well into the supra-physiological range 1500-2000 ng/dL (men with high SHBG or issues regarding sensitivity of the AR) to achieve a healthy FT.

Understand that for many 200 mg/week (men with normal or low SHBG) would have their FT way too high on such as dose.

It comes down to what levels dose one need to achieve a healthy FT in order to experience relief/improvements from low t symptoms.

Most men do well having their FT 2-3% of TT.

Ofcourse one wants to be OPTIMAL and feel there best but do understand that when one is always using the word feeling BEST there is a fine line as one can feel there best at 100-150 mg/week, than all of a sudden it is 200mg/week, 250+ mg/week.....many can easily say eventually that they feel there best entering the steroid dose territory 300-600 mg/week.

As far as the grams +/week of testosterone combined with vasrious AAS it is the amateur and professional bodybuilders not your average gym rat as most would use testosterone in the 300-600 mg/week range along with various AAS and yes there are the clowns I would imagine using 1 gram test/week which is idiotic as I would say you have shitty genetics and those absurd doses should never be need by the average man.

 

[krm]

On a completely unrelated side note, Dorian Yates, who was Mr. Olympia 6 times, published his steroid cycle in a magazine many years back - he's always been very open about his steroid use.

He was using (if I remember correctly) something like 350mg pre-contest and 750mg off-season (of course, combined with numberous other compounds).

Surprisingly little for a guy of his calibre...

so all those amateurs going in to the grams-of-test-per-week-as-a-basline area are clearly delusional and, sadly, think that all it takes to become a world champion is the right amount of gear...

But yeah, my question wasn't related to any of these doses, but rather if a normal "high end" TRT dose could cause desensitization, which apparently is not the case.

Case closed for me