Post TRT - Libido is DEAD :(

[Cataceous]

So why do you say you cannot handle higher levels of testosterone. You believe it is because when you went through puberty you had low levels of testosterone to begin with?

I "handled" higher levels for some years, but came to realize the harm they caused was outweighing the good. I loved the boost in athleticism, but the persistent headaches along with impaired libido and sexual function pushed me to keep experimenting. I would guess I had normal testosterone through life until hypogonadism hit in my 50s. What guys like you downplay is that even a TT of 800 ng/dL is unnaturally high for most men, especially when that level is constant 24/7. If my healthy youthful levels entailed a daily peak of 600 ng/dL, then that is not low, but average.

You are now studiously silent on your claim that lower levels didn't work for you. Are they true or a confabulation?

When it did first started I did have lower numbers and they did not work for me as I'm sure you know.

 

[Vince]

I "handled" higher levels for some years, but came to realize the harm they caused was outweighing the good. I loved the boost in athleticism, but the persistent headaches along with impaired libido and sexual function pushed me to keep experimenting. I would guess I had normal testosterone through life until hypogonadism hit in my 50s. What guys like you downplay is that even a TT of 800 ng/dL is unnaturally high for most men, especially when that level is constant 24/7. If my healthy youthful levels entailed a daily peak of 600 ng/dL, then that is not low, but average.

You are now studiously silent on your claim that lower levels didn't work for you. Are they true or a confabulation?

I thought you said you had anxiety issues, are you saying that's not true now? I also thought you said you still have libido issues?

I'm sure you know or should know that cycling raising cortisol and inducing inflammation, which can suppress testosterone levels. Maybe that's why you had to go on trt?

Heart Risks Associated With Extreme Exercise

Exercise is good for you. But extreme athletes can push it past healthy limits and cause heart damage. Here’s what you need to know.

health.clevelandclinic.org

 

[Phil Goodman]

I have always said that if you prioritize musculature over general health then higher doses are the way to go. That's not supporting your case. The average guy would rather just feel good and not risk the side effects. At a minimum, he should experience healthy normal levels so he has a point of reference in case he eventually wants to try higher levels and things go bad.

I don't know how you can dismiss dozens of studies involving hundreds of thousands of men, which support dosing to physiological levels. The burden of proof that non-physiological levels are better overall is on you. The studies already show, and you acknowledge, that the side effects burden increases, which is a de facto indication that higher levels are not better overall. If a hypogonadal guy comes along and says "I want big muscles, health be damned." then let him start high. For everybody else, starting at physiological levels is the rational and evidence-based approach.

Increased Muscle mass within reason is a huge benefit to health - dose dependent
Increased Bone density within reason is a huge benefit to health - dose dependent

Consider the number of elderly who fall and break something due to being weak and frail that end up on their deathbed. Just those two alone are huge benefits, and again are dose dependent

Reduced fat mass is also a huge benefit to health. Also dose dependent

IGF 1 levels… IGF-1 matters beyond muscle — it plays a role in tissue repair, collagen synthesis (supporting joint and connective tissue health), and metabolic regulation. At 50 mg/week, IGF-1 stimulation is modest. At 100 mg/week, it’s meaningfully higher.

Improvements to A1C and other metabolic markers are very beneficial for overall health. Also dose dependent.



So no… it isn’t just “sure if you want to get jacked take larger doses”. I stand by my (repeated) statements that benefits at 100-120 are better for most guys than doses of 50-75 and I also stand by my statements that the safety of those doses is well-established.

 

[Cataceous]

I thought you said you had anxiety issues, are you saying that's not true now? I also thought you said you still have libido issues?
...

I never had anxiety in the context of TRT. If anything, TRT lowers my anxiety, though paradoxically it also impairs sleep at higher levels. Not long ago I did report that in the context of short trials with clascoterone I developed anxiety, leading me to stop using it. The apparent resolution of libido issues is fairly recent. It had been unreliable under TRT, but is now consistent.

...
I'm sure you know or should know that cycling raising cortisol and inducing inflammation, which can suppress testosterone levels. Maybe that's why you had to go on trt?
...

It can't be ruled out as a contributing factor, but other factors seem more likely. There were concussions from bike racing crashes. There's that old scapegoat, environmental toxins. Who knows?

If I had testosterone levels that looks like you do. I would feel terrible. I believe when I was a young man. My levels must have been pretty high. Cuz now for me to feel good. I have to have levels above the normal range.

When it did first started I did have lower numbers and they did not work for me as I'm sure you know.

In the absence of clarification by you I am going to assume these statements of yours have no basis in fact. You apparently started TRT with a very high dose of 70 mg TC E3.5D, and in part to reduce hematocrit, eventually settled on 16 mg ED, still well above what's physiological. Therefore you have no experience with physiological TRT and cannot make the claim that you would feel worse at "normal" levels. For all you know you would feel better.

 

[Cataceous]

Increased Muscle mass within reason is a huge benefit to health - dose dependent
Increased Bone density within reason is a huge benefit to health - dose dependent

Consider the number of elderly who fall and break something due to being weak and frail that end up on their deathbed. Just those two alone are huge benefits, and again are dose dependent

These parameters most likely can be improved sufficiently with the restoration of normal youthful levels. There's no evidence that going above what's physiological improves longevity.

IGF 1 levels… IGF-1 matters beyond muscle — it plays a role in tissue repair, collagen synthesis (supporting joint and connective tissue health), and metabolic regulation. At 50 mg/week, IGF-1 stimulation is modest. At 100 mg/week, it’s meaningfully higher.

IGF-1 is a double-edged sword. It's useful, but also pro-aging. Maximum longevity is linked to levels that are a little below average.

So no… it isn’t just “sure if you want to get jacked take larger doses”. I stand by my (repeated) statements that benefits at 100-120 are better for most guys than doses of 50-75 and I also stand by my statements that the safety of those doses is well-established.

You're entitled to the opinion, and I appreciate that you now don't seem to be outright rejecting the idea of starting TRT at healthy normal levels to establish a baseline.

 

[Vince]

I never had anxiety in the context of TRT. If anything, TRT lowers my anxiety, though paradoxically it also impairs sleep at higher levels. Not long ago I did report that in the context of short trials with clascoterone I developed anxiety, leading me to stop using it. The apparent resolution of libido issues is fairly recent. It had been unreliable under TRT, but is now consistent.



It can't be ruled out as a contributing factor, but other factors seem more likely. There were concussions from bike racing crashes. There's that old scapegoat, environmental toxins. Who knows?




In the absence of clarification by you I am going to assume these statements of yours have no basis in fact. You apparently started TRT with a very high dose of 70 mg TC E3.5D, and in part to reduce hematocrit, eventually settled on 16 mg ED, still well above what's physiological. Therefore you have no experience with physiological TRT and cannot make the claim that you would feel worse at "normal" levels. For all you know you would feel better.

You may want to go easy on your cycle training. As you know it does lead to heart disease or higher CT heart scan. I don't know if you've had one? Also, if you ease up on your cycle training, it may also help to increase your libido.

Here's one of my very old testosterone level. It's all I could find TESTOSTERONE 503 ng/dL