Oral growth hormone enhancer MK-677 (ibutamoren)

[t_spacemonkey]

maybe its worth a try. there is quite some reddit posts about people having negative mental reactions, but I understand that many of those people read some thing on the internet and have expectations of some bad going to happen, so those reactions might be purely psychological.
however I had some negative experiences with other peptides/research substances, so i don't take it lightly anymore. I had an awful reaction to bpc157, twice, since i tried it a second time because i thought 'it can't be the bpc157'. it was awful, 3-4 days of very high anxiety, which mimic exactly what many others have experienced. there was no anticipation on my side, i quite honestly expected that it will be relaxing.
now, most people are fine with this, but since i had this experience, i take everything under a magnifying glass

 

[BigTex]

here it is! i have a bottle and 2g raw powder of this. so i don't take it lightly after spending 100usd on this. but i don't think i will try it based on the 2 below. gladly will give it away for free lol

A ghrelin-growth hormone axis drives stress-induced vulnerability to enhanced fear

Hormones in the hypothalamus-pituitary-adrenal (HPA) axis mediate many of the bodily responses to stressors, yet there is not a clear relationship between the levels of these hormones and stress-associated mental illnesses such as post-traumatic stress ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

https://anabolicminds.com/community/threads/long-acting-ghrelin-mimetics-mk-677-brain-detrimental.283161/

Here is the problemm I have with this study:

Subjects​

All experiments used adult male Long Evans rats (250–350 g, Taconic, Germantown, NY), housed individually (68–72°F; 12-h light-dark cycle, 7AM lights on).​

While animal studies are interesting, many times the same effect doesn't happen in Humans. Obviously from all of the studies I posted that were done on humans this is not aa concern.

One of the best-characterized consequences of ghrelin receptor activation is release of GH. So when the stomach empties, ghrelin is pulsed wich stilmulates the pituitary to pulse GH. Being hungry not have the same effect? How about the use of any one of the GHRP's?

What this study did find which is interesting is ghrelin and growth hormone act together in the amygdala to enhance fear. This study did not study what happens in humans and did not in any way show that MK-677 "will essentially fuck up certain brain cells due to long half resulting in permanently induced fear states potentially."

Guys be careful reading research. Don't read things into data that are not there. Animal studies in science are very interesting but theories based on animal studies are often rejected when repeated on humans. I posted 21 studies actually done on humans in the same areas which reject this idea that MK-677 causes permanent brain damage to humans.

While this is just me, I stated taking MK-677 in about 2012, and have taken if frequently and for months at a time. I have no episodes of fear and when it come to stressful situations, I am always the calmest.

 

[DS3]

Here is the problemm I have with this study:

Subjects​

All experiments used adult male Long Evans rats (250–350 g, Taconic, Germantown, NY), housed individually (68–72°F; 12-h light-dark cycle, 7AM lights on).​

While animal studies are interesting, many times the same effect doesn't happen in Humans. Obviously from all of the studies I posted that were done on humans this is not aa concern.

One of the best-characterized consequences of ghrelin receptor activation is release of GH. So when the stomach empties, ghrelin is pulsed wich stilmulates the pituitary to pulse GH. Being hungry not have the same effect? How about the use of any one of the GHRP's?

What this study did find which is interesting is ghrelin and growth hormone act together in the amygdala to enhance fear. This study did not study what happens in humans and did not in any way show that MK-677 "will essentially fuck up certain brain cells due to long half resulting in permanently induced fear states potentially."

Guys be careful reading research. Don't read things into data that are not there. Animal studies in science are very interesting but theories based on animal studies are often rejected when repeated on humans. I posted 21 studies actually done on humans in the same areas which reject this idea that MK-677 causes permanent brain damage to humans.

While this is just me, I stated taking MK-677 in about 2012, and have taken if frequently and for months at a time. I have no episodes of fear and when it come to stressful situations, I am always the calmest.

The most interesting findings are direct feedback from people who have used these substances. Several guys on this thread alone have said they love Ibutamoren and experience no side effects, and several others say they experienced negative side effects include anxiety symptoms. It doesn’t take a genius to determine that negative psychological side effects are a possible side effect.

Research helps us determine what’s likely real, but is also limited in what it can tell us. For example, Dr. Lipshultz’s research on Nandrolone at BCM tells us that none of the patients receiving nandrolone experienced negative side effects. Taking that study at face value would conclude that gentlemen the world over are likely safe from side effects when co-administering testosterone and nandrolone. Reality check: how many guys on here discuss severe psychological side effect when using nandrolone?

 

[BigTex]

I remember in my teenage days, I gave this A-hole guy I knew and sacchrine tab and told him it was LSD.....they guy actually thought he was high on LSD and acted like a fool. I laughed my butt off. The placebo effect can be very strong. Are negative side effect possible? Sure, but the %'s are very few and I think the prolifera of studies done on the long and short term effects of MK-677 show exactly that. Can things change? Sure that is why we do research. Who knows maybe 10 years down the line we will find out all those who took MK will make us go crazy and die. But for now we have to go with what we know. Those that get good results and love this stuff are the ones driving the market for sales of MK-677. All you have to do is look at how many places in the internet that sell MK and you will see it is popular. This is literally a $ million business because it gives results. I know some of these guy who have sites and they are LIVING LARGE. Multiple homes, cars etc. If it didn't work well for the overwhelming majority of people, it would not sell. Most of the SARMS have fallen in that catagory. People use it and found it it was hype.

I have an account on Reddit and have for years. I would not take anything said on Reddit seriously. I personally know well over 1000 guys who have taken MK and l have had nothing but good results. The only negatives things reported are water gains and hunger. That drowsy feeling you get is also reported but this is usually from guys who have never done GH and don't have a clue know what happens when your GH rises very high. You get all of this.

 

[DS3]

I remember in my teenage days, I gave this A-hole guy I knew and sacchrine tab and told him it was LSD.....they guy actually thought he was high on LSD and acted like a fool. I laughed my butt off. The placebo effect can be very strong. Are negative side effect possible? Sure, but the %'s are very few and I think the prolifera of studies done on the long and short term effects of MK-677 show exactly that. Can things change? Sure that is why we do research. Who knows maybe 10 years down the line we will find out all those who took MK will make us go crazy and die. But for now we have to go with what we know. Those that get good results and love this stuff are the ones driving the market for sales of MK-677. All you have to do is look at how many places in the internet that sell MK and you will see it is popular. This is literally a $ million business because it gives results. I know some of these guy who have sites and they are LIVING LARGE. Multiple homes, cars etc. If it didn't work well for the overwhelming majority of people, it would not sell. Most of the SARMS have fallen in that catagory. People use it and found it it was hype.

I have an account on Reddit and have for years. I would not take anything said on Reddit seriously. I personally know well over 1000 guys who have taken MK and l have had nothing but good results. The only negatives things reported are water gains and hunger. That drowsy feeling you get is also reported but this is usually from guys who have never done GH and don't have a clue know what happens when your GH rises very high. You get all of this.

20 guys take Ibutamoren and love it. A couple guys take Ibutamoren and experiencd unsettling anxiety and uncontrollable hunger symptoms and stop it’s usage. Upon cessation these side effects recede. Those handful of guys come on here and discuss their negative experiences and are met with, “That’s not what studies show. You must be mistaken. Placebo. Confounds.” Ridiculous.

There are a fair amount of people that enjoy Ibutamoren, that’s not in question. What is being called into question is whether some guys experience negative side effects such as anxiety as a result of Ibutamoren usage. In this thread alone there have been a handful of guys raise their hand and say they’ve experienced these side effects. This is the real world. Wake up. “Bbbbbbbbuuuuutttttt studies show…”

 

[DS3]

Those that get good results and love this stuff are the ones driving the market for sales of MK-677. All you have to do is look at how many places in the internet that sell MK and you will see it is popular. This is literally a $ million business because it gives results. I know some of these guy who have sites and they are LIVING LARGE. Multiple homes, cars etc. If it didn't work well for the overwhelming majority of people, it would not sell. Most of the SARMS have fallen in that catagory. People use it and found it it was hype.

What % of average gym goers are anabolic steroid users? Higher than most of us realize. What percentage of steroid users experience side effects that are deleterious to health, both physical and psychological? Higher than most admit. Do the majority of steroid users experience side effects that are both physical and psychological in nature? Absolutely. Does this same group drive underground market sales?

Men will suffer a degree of side effects for the anabolic/androgenic effect of steroids. The same applies for market sales in peptides. Most men don’t care and aren’t self-aware enough to realize what variables are affecting them.

 

[BigTex]

20 guys take Ibutamoren and love it. A couple guys take Ibutamoren and experiencd unsettling anxiety and uncontrollable hunger symptoms and stop it’s usage. Upon cessation these side effects recede. Those handful of guys come on here and discuss their negative experiences and are met with, “That’s not what studies show. You must be mistaken. Placebo. Confounds.” Ridiculous.

There are a fair amount of people that enjoy Ibutamoren, that’s not in question. What is being called into question is whether some guys experience negative side effects such as anxiety as a result of Ibutamoren usage. In this thread alone there have been a handful of guys raise their hand and say they’ve experienced these side effects. This is the real world. Wake up. “Bbbbbbbbuuuuutttttt studies show…”

Ahhhhhh....another science denier.....I understand Sounds like it is you that needs to wake up. The placebo effect can be very strong which is why double blind studies ae done. Read the science, read the side effect be a critical thinker and come to a decision if you want to try MK-677. If you don't like toss the rest in te garbage and face reaility. Nothing against Reddit, I have an account there but I remember this is where Q-anon lived. How many grown adults bought into thatt nonsense? When you start making decision based on the "I feel it, I feel it" syndrome then you are going to find yourself very disappointed. Being a world class athlete many years of my life you don't listen to I feel it, you need to see real world results. This is why so many rush out to buy protein poweder. I feeeeeel it.........

If you are experiencd unsettling anxiety and uncontrollable hunger symptoms and can't deal with it, then stop taking it. If you are having anxiety from doing TRT, then stop doing it. Not such a hard coice but to tell us that MK is bad because rats got scared is kind of REDICULOUS.

 

[t_spacemonkey]

not only were all the rats scared as hell, none of them lives today!
i think the keys for me to try peptides (and i've been trying them), is to find a reputable source, monitor the dosing, add 1 item at a time, carefully observe any s/x.
there is no study you can fully 'trust', but same goes for pharma, which absolutely can not be trusted either.

 

[DS3]

Ahhhhhh....another science denier.....I understand Sounds like it is you that needs to wake up. The placebo effect can be very strong which is why double blind studies ae done. Read the science, read the side effect be a critical thinker and come to a decision if you want to try MK-677. If you don't like toss the rest in te garbage and face reaility. Nothing against Reddit, I have an account there but I remember this is where Q-anon lived. How many grown adults bought into thatt nonsense? When you start making decision based on the "I feel it, I feel it" syndrome then you are going to find yourself very disappointed. Being a world class athlete many years of my life you don't listen to I feel it, you need to see real world results. This is why so many rush out to buy protein poweder. I feeeeeel it.........

If you are experiencd unsettling anxiety and uncontrollable hunger symptoms and can't deal with it, then stop taking it. If you are having anxiety from doing TRT, then stop doing it. Not such a hard coice but to tell us that MK is bad because rats got scared is kind of REDICULOUS.

The series of studies you have such faith in do not mention psychological side effects as potentials for Ibutamoren usage. Yet here we are with several men saying they have experienced such. Evidently, there are holes left to be filled in the scientific bible you pray to.

 

[DS3]

When you start making decision based on the "I feel it, I feel it" syndrome

You realize that side effect profiles on more subjective items such as psychological side effects of a drug are determined by asking subjective “feeling” questions to control groups, right?

 

[BigTex]

What % of average gym goers are anabolic steroid users? Higher than most of us realize. What percentage of steroid users experience side effects that are deleterious to health, both physical and psychological? Higher than most admit. Do the majority of steroid users experience side effects that are both physical and psychological in nature? Absolutely. Does this same group drive underground market sales?

Men will suffer a degree of side effects for the anabolic/androgenic effect of steroids. The same applies for market sales in peptides. Most men don’t care and aren’t self-aware enough to realize what variables are affecting them.

But then you have actually done a survey and found out the percentage of steroid users in your gym? Or is just your assumption of reality? If using steroids is that deleterious to our health both physically and mentally why are we all doing steroids? Call it TRT or what ever we ARE using anabolic steroids.

I am an administrator of a long standing board that is very private. We have a world wide group and everyone there uses steroids for athletic purposes and most are competitive bodybuilders. Most experienced goup of guys you could imagine. They all read science and value what they read. These guys are adults and know what to expect and know that that have gotten themselves into before they ever go that direction. If they don't want to take the risk or don't like the side effects, they opt out and go back their normal life. Its been that way for many years.

By they way, since you are reading into what I write that was not there. I made it clear that people can have side effects, despite the overwhelming majorty not experienceing them and I never said it was rediculous and never said science said. I simply evaluated a research study and posted several that supported what I said. Those of us who do deal with science as part of our jobs know that animal studies rarely equate to human results. Posting scientic evidene how things commonly are done when people come here to learn. Not going on statements made on Reddit. Again, reality may not be your strong suite.

 

[BigTex]

The series of studies you have such faith in do not mention psychological side effects as potentials for Ibutamoren usage. Yet here we are with several men saying they have experienced such. Evidently, there are holes left to be filled in the scientific bible you pray to.

Perhaps it was not studied? Have you bothered even looking or do you prefer to just use your assumptions. Your bible seems to have a lot of holes in it. I feel it, I feel it.

Looks your type faster than I do and my lunch time is over. So I have to face reality and get ready to go to the gym and make myself healthier. You reminded me that I need to take my peptide injection with HCG and my 10mg MK-677 and get my ass to the gym. I feel it, i feel it.

 

[DS3]

I am an administrator of a long standing board that is very private. We have a world wide group and everyone there uses steroids for athletic purposes and most are competitive bodybuilders. Most experienced goup of guys you could imagine.

So you do give credence to anecdotes based on real-world experience. Just not on this forum, apparently.

Those of us who do deal with science as part of our jobs know that animal studies rarely equate to human results.

For the record, my graduate degree is in applied science. There comes a time for many of us when we realize the limitation of research when faced with conflicting real-world evidence. And when there is no scientific evidence yet real-world evidence suggests a relationship, adept thinkers step out into the real world and accept that research, though useful, does not bear all.

 

[tareload]

For example, Dr. Lipshultz’s research on Nandrolone at BCM tells us that none of the patients receiving nandrolone experienced negative side effects. Taking that study at face value would conclude that gentlemen the world over are likely safe from side effects when co-administering testosterone and nandrolone.

Evidently I just need to get my nandrolone through Dr. L. Why didn't I think of that sooner?

Thank you.

 

[BigTex]

So you do give credence to anecdotes based on real-world experience. Just not on this forum, apparently.


For the record, my graduate degree is in applied science. There comes a time for many of us when we realize the limitation of research when faced with conflicting real-world evidence. And when there is no scientific evidence yet real-world evidence suggests a relationship, adept thinkers step out into the real world and accept that research, though useful, does not bear all.

You know this was a great thread started by Nelson Vergel who posted quite a bit of positive research on MK-677. Even the late Dr. John Crisler blessed us with some of his postings. There were tons of positive anecdotal reports of the benefits of MK-677. Nelson even posted a clinical trial....since you are so up with reasearch you should know this is great evidence.

Oral growth hormone enhancer MK-677 (ibutamoren)

Paul-E How is your appetite? Have you gained weight? How are you sleeping? They are not my results My IGF-1 is already high on TRT 374 115-307. but I can answer for the test subject no noticeable appetite change gained some LBM lost some fat improved sleep less waking moving at night add...

www.excelmale.com

Dr. Justin Saya, MD took his time to offer his expertise and a few people went on to say they get prescription MK from Empower. Dr. Saya also offered his expert observations

Oral growth hormone enhancer MK-677 (ibutamoren)

I no longer take it. Too much water retention and hunger (and belly weight gain). It was abandoned by Merck for a reason.

www.excelmale.com

Nelson later posted the 9 health benefits and side effects

Oral growth hormone enhancer MK-677 (ibutamoren)

I no longer take it. Too much water retention and hunger (and belly weight gain). It was abandoned by Merck for a reason.

www.excelmale.com

One member told of his time doing MK and how he gained weight and dropped it. After he stopped taking the MK he lost 16lbs. But then this is why competitive bodybuilders drop exo GH weeks before a show. These water weight gains have also have been shown to have positive effects on nitrigen retention. Wonder how much that helps strength and hypertrophy? Isn't that kind ofhow anabolic steroids work?

There was a good video from Dr. William Seeds who say MK is a subpar substitute for GH. Of course those of us in the bodybuilding end of this realize that and mix MK with exo GH to save money GH is much more expensive. Water bloating, hunger and swollen fingers. I guess Dr. Seeds has not been on a 10iu/day exo gh cycle.

Then comes a posting saying MK is a joke. I simply asked why and got this reply;

Because you get all the nasty side effects of MK677 like:

1) Ravenous hunger
2) Excessive daytime lethargy
3) Excessive water retention

OK.....try exo GH and see how you feel. The same guy claiimed MK has a 24 hr 1/2 life which is absolutely not true. @bixit shut that bro-science down fast.

Another great member ask about how to make the powder to liquid. Guess who solved that problem?

Then comes this posting.....i'd stay away from ibutamoren. i can't recall the articles source, but it will essentially fuck up certain brain cells due to long half resulting in permanently induced fear states potentially. lots of horror stories out there. i probably stick to ipamorelin, seems safer.

I posted that I had never heard of this and 21 posted peer reviewed studies that support my claims. I wasn't rude or condescendinig.....trust me I can be very rude if I want. Then comes the rat study which I posted my concerns very nicely....@Cataceous posted about the same thing.

YOU....posted this

Oral growth hormone enhancer MK-677 (ibutamoren)

I started with 15mg MK677 before bed. I experienced mild munchies during the day and mild water retention about like when I drink alcohol. After 2 to 3 weeks I upped the dose to 25mg without any increase in the sides. Since then the sides have decreased even more and are very manageable. I get...

www.excelmale.com

Of course you did not have time to back up what your claim with science or even anecdotal experience because you don't have the time. Yet you spend quite a bit of time attacking my statements and seemly putting words in my mouth I never said. In fact 6 postings followed so you obviously had time to just post.

Maybe now we can get back to a more scientific discussion of MK-677 like happened when this thread was started. Yes worrying about what rats do when ghrelin levels are jacked up and that are stuck in boxes and stressed out is kind of rediculous unless you are a rat. As I said, in my world we all know the ins and outs of these substances based on science not on the I feel it syndrome. We all know what these substances do and expect the results when we do them. Exo GH does gives the same results as MK, less the hunger. GHRP's all give the same sides effects as MK including hunger. If you are not willing to put up with the side effects of these substances then don't take them. Weight gain, lethargy, water gains, increase in blood pressure, insulin resistance all well known side effects of MK as well as exo GH. Most accept the side effects or know how to deal with them long before they use these substances.

Here is a bit of reality.....when GH and IGF-1 levels rise above what is considered "normal" you get water retention, lethargy, increases in blood pressure (water retention) carpul tunnel, joint pain even insulin resistance. High levels of testosterone also cause water retention. If you take any substance that raises these growth levels above normal you will experience these unplesant side effects. I have had fingers swollen like sausages from doing 10iu of GH/d, I have also had the same effect doing peptides 4-6 times a day. Again, the same result doing MK at 25-30mg/d. But the benefits were outstanding. Especially when taking peptides 3 x/d, MK at 12.5mg/d and 2iu of exo GH 2 times a day. This subpar substance worked very well combined with the other two and sure did cut the expense of having to do a lot of GH. Sometimes if we want the benefits we have to accept the negatives or find a way to reduce them.

Go back and read some of the excellent research Nelson put up over the past 7 year in this thread. It didn't just start when you posted. By the way my workout went well, the peptides and MK helped greatly to give me a much bigger pump in the muscle. The will no doubt help stimulate hypertrophy. There of course is a lot of science behind this as well. But like you I am kind of busy and don't feel up to posting it.

 

[Nelson Vergel]

Ibutamoren indication new owners

Lumos Hopes Its Oral Alternative to HGH Will Fuel Its Growth

https://www.iheart.com/podcast/256-rarecast-31040095/episode/lumos-hopes-its-oral-alternative-to-112339601/ Growth hormone deficiency is a rare condition that is the result of inadequate secretion of growth hormone from the pituitary gland. Though recombinant human growth hormone has long been...

www.excelmale.com

 

[Nelson Vergel]

LUM-201 (ibutamoren) - The OraGrowtH212 trial

The OraGrowtH212 trial is a global study involving 80 patients in four arms, testing three different doses of a new drug compared to the standard dose of growth hormone. The study aims to measure catchup growth over an extended period, with promising interim results indicating comparable growth...

www.excelmale.com

 

[BigTex]

Notice from the video - "Safety profile of the drug is OUTSTANDING" so the FDA allowed much bigger doses to be tested.

The three doses tested are:
0.8mg/kg so for a 200lb adult - 89mgs
1.6mg/kg - 144mgs
3.2mg/kg - 288mgs

Those are considerably larger doses than have ever been tested. I believe 50mgs is the largest. It will be interesting to see the outcome of this trial.

Hopefully this will put and end to the internet rumors about this drug being unsafe. I think the 1st time I started using this drug was around 2015. Nothing but good tings to say about the results. Works very well with rhGH because it keep somatostatin levels in check

 

[Nelson Vergel]

I lost weight involuntarily and used ibutamoren for a few weeks at 12 mg per day. It was great. I gained my weight and pump back. Took it at night. I don’t think it helped my sleep but I had no side effects at all.
I recommend this drug instead of nandrolone for people who are losing weight involuntarily. No effect on hematocrit or HPT axis.

 

[ajax31]

That sounds promising if you gained mainly muscle weight.