New Bloodwork - Crashed Estrogen = What now ???

[Drug350]

I started TRT with my Urologist back in late November. Started once a week dosing, but days 5, 6, 7 I didn't feel great. Went to twice a week split dosing, and definitely felt better, but the more I read about "daily micro dosing", I liked what I read, because I'm usually sensitive to estrogen conversion and I did have nipple pain on the once a week dosing. So I started doing 14 IU's daily which equates to 200 MG's Testosterone Cypionate weekly. I tested using Discount Labs and tested, fasted, first thing in the morning, prior to my daily shot. I've been micro dosing daily for 3 weeks at this point. My main reason for testing was because I was having issue's with ED, staying hard, no libido, and extreme difficulty getting off and this strange back pain. I've never had this weird back pain. It hurt to lay flat on my back working out. I thought it could be high estrogen so I took some UGL Arimedex from a legit source, but I still wasn't convinced it wasn't bunk. Well after getting my blood work I now know the Arimedex was definitely NOT bunk. I crashed my Estrogen. It came back at less than 2 using sensitive testing. Here's my numbers:

Total Testosterone = 1143 NGDL
Free Testosterone = 324.1 PGML
DHT = 87 NGDL
Prolactin = 4.2 NGDL
Estradiol (ultra sensitive LC Ms) = < 2 PGML
TSH = .84 miUl
T4 Free = 1.2 NGDL
T3 Free = 4.3 PGML

What can I do now to change my estrogen or how long will it normally take to raise it back to around 20 - 25 PGML ??? I don't want to increase my testosterone to raise it. My only saving grace is that I've been able to get hard as a rock using PT 141 and 5 MG's Cialis, but I can't get off. My girlfriend is happy as I go for hours and occasionally lose my erection, but it comes right back. But I'm really not feeling much or getting off at all. I now have learned how horrible crashing your estrogen can be. What can I do now ??? Will my libido come back a long with my ability to bust a nut once my estrogen gets back to a normal range ???

 

[Flexedup]

How much Arimidex did you take and for how long? You can play the waiting game without taking anymore Arimidex and it should resolve within 3 weeks on its own. If it doesn't, like in my case when I used Aromasin, HCG was the only king to fix everything. It felt like I factory reset my system on it.

 

[Drug350]

Yes. I did. I stopped about 10 days ago but don't really feel any different. I still have the strange backache along with every other issue. I'll see what another week brings. I took a shit load. Like 1 MG daily of Arimedex because I believed it was bunk or low dosed. I'll get just my Estradiol tested mid week next week and see if it's come up at all.

 

[Systemlord]

Recovery from crashing your estrogen could take weeks, months and in rare cases some are still dealing with issues for longer periods of time. In those rare cases the estrogen recovered, symptoms remain.

Screwing with your hormonal pathways is playing with fire!

 

[madman]

I started TRT with my Urologist back in late November. Started once a week dosing, but days 5, 6, 7 I didn't feel great. Went to twice a week split dosing, and definitely felt better, but the more I read about "daily micro dosing", I liked what I read, because I'm usually sensitive to estrogen conversion and I did have nipple pain on the once a week dosing. So I started doing 14 IU's daily which equates to 200 MG's Testosterone Cypionate weekly. I tested using Discount Labs and tested, fasted, first thing in the morning, prior to my daily shot. I've been micro dosing daily for 3 weeks at this point. My main reason for testing was because I was having issue's with ED, staying hard, no libido, and extreme difficulty getting off and this strange back pain. I've never had this weird back pain. It hurt to lay flat on my back working out. I thought it could be high estrogen so I took some UGL Arimedex from a legit source, but I still wasn't convinced it wasn't bunk. Well after getting my blood work I now know the Arimedex was definitely NOT bunk. I crashed my Estrogen. It came back at less than 2 using sensitive testing. Here's my numbers:

Total Testosterone = 1143 NGDL
Free Testosterone = 324.1 PGML
DHT = 87 NGDL
Prolactin = 4.2 NGDL
Estradiol (ultra sensitive LC Ms) = < 2 PGML
TSH = .84 miUl
T4 Free = 1.2 NGDL
T3 Free = 4.3 PGML

What can I do now to change my estrogen or how long will it normally take to raise it back to around 20 - 25 PGML ??? I don't want to increase my testosterone to raise it. My only saving grace is that I've been able to get hard as a rock using PT 141 and 5 MG's Cialis, but I can't get off. My girlfriend is happy as I go for hours and occasionally lose my erection, but it comes right back. But I'm really not feeling much or getting off at all. I now have learned how horrible crashing your estrogen can be. What can I do now ??? Will my libido come back a long with my ability to bust a nut once my estrogen gets back to a normal range ???

Your daily dose of T is absurdly high!

So I started doing 14 IU's daily which equates to 200 MG's Testosterone Cypionate weekly. I tested using Discount Labs and tested, fasted, first thing in the morning, prior to my daily shot. I've been micro dosing daily for 3 weeks at this point.


This is not micro-dosing!

How did you end up going from your previous dose of 100 mg T once weekly --->100 mg split-twice weekly then did a complete 360 and basically doubled your dose to 196 mg T/week split into dailies (28mg T)?

This is overkill, to say the least.

Clear as day that your TT and more importantly FT are too high which was most likely the reason you were struggling as you clearly stated:

My main reason for testing was because I was having issue's with ED, staying hard, no libido, and extreme difficulty getting off and this strange back pain. I've never had this weird back pain. It hurt to lay flat on my back working out. I thought it could be high estrogen so I took some UGL Arimedex


Although your estradiol may very well have been too high due to your very high FT it was a bad move jumping on the AI and to top it off without any labs to boot.

The simple fix would have been lowering your weekly T dose.

Guess you never read through all the threads on here where we stress that it is always best to start low and go slow let alone most men can easily achieve a high/very high trough FT level on 100-150 mg T/week, especially when split into more frequent injections.

Far from common anyone would need the higher-end dose of 200 mg T/week to achieve such.

Your best bet would be to lower your weekly T dose and throw in some hCG.

Even then you need to take a hard long look at how you are approaching this.

You are missing important blood markers such as your SHBG, RBCs/hemoglobin/hematocrit.

Good chance you drove down your SHBG on the 200 mg T/week protocol and drove up your hemoglobin/hematocrit even on a split into dailies protocol as your FT is very high.

Post your SHBG, RBCs/hemo/hemato?

Blood Test Results - What to Make of Um

I'm 54 yrs young, in good shape, 6'0" / 195 pounds, eat healthy. I've felt run down for several years now, lack of drive, energy, ED issue's, poor sleep (waking up many times all night long) and poor focus, but I'm an engineer for BNSF Railway (USA) and am on call 24/7/365 days a year with 2...

www.excelmale.com

Help - 4 weeks on TRT + Nipple Pain / Estradiol = 20 pg/ml ???

So I just got my 5th weekly shot, 100 MG's Testosterone Cypionate. My nipples starting hurting about the 3rd week, and continue to hurt. I bumped into a wall the other day hitting my chest /nipple and it fu_kin hurt like hell !!!! If I touch my nipples, pushing up and down, they hurt or push...

www.excelmale.com

6 weeks on TRT - Is there a Honeymoon Phase or Too high a Dose Perhaps ???

I don't want to make this post too long, so I'll condense as much as possible. 54 yrs old, been feeling shitty for several years. My testosterone came back as follow: Testosterone = 169 NGDL Free Testosterone = 3.1 NGDL Bioavailable Testosterone = 72.6 NGDL SHBG = 34 nmol/L TSH = 2.64 uiU/ml...

www.excelmale.com

 

[madman]

Yes. I did. I stopped about 10 days ago but don't really feel any different. I still have the strange backache along with every other issue. I'll see what another week brings. I took a shit load. Like 1 MG daily of Arimedex because I believed it was bunk or low dosed. I'll get just my Estradiol tested mid week next week and see if it's come up at all.

You had all these issues before you even jumped on the AI and now that you crashed your estradiol it is going to be much worse for the time being!

Having your FT let alone estradiol too low or too high can cause issues.

Are there people that get on TRT and have no or very few side effects?

Hi! I keep reading and hearing from interviews, forums, posts in different sites reports from different people just to gather information before I take the plunge. I keep finding reports of people dealing with side effects some of them are serious. I've seen a lot of people having issues...

www.excelmale.com

*T's metabolites estradiol and DHT are needed in healthy amounts to experience the full spectrum of testosterone's beneficial effects on (cardiovascular and prostate, brain, libido, erectile function, bone, tendons, immune system, lipids, and body composition).


*Natural testosterone is viewed as the best androgen for substitution in hypogonadal men. The reason behind the selection is that testosterone can be converted to DHT and E2, thus developing the full spectrum of testosterone activities in long-term substitution

*Preparations of native testosterone or its esters (aromatizable T) should be used for TTh

 

[Drug350]

The first 3 weeks on TRT I was on 100 MG's weekly Testosterone Cypionate, and while days 5, 6, 7 didn't feel like days 1 - 4/5, everything was fantastic. I felt amazing. Best I've felt in a decade plus. But after those 3 weeks, it basically disappeared. No more crazy libido, no more need for sex really. I felt nothing. I was told here "that's the honeymoon phase, your body experiencing testosterone after being so short for year's". I was extremely disappointed. I also noticed significant nipple irritation, just like when I've done cycles in past years and I figured my estrogen was on the higher side. That's when I started taking a tiny bit of Arimedex, 1/2 mg twice a week, but nothing changed. No libido increases. No dick improvements. I didn't even care about sex.
I watched lots of videos on YouTube, including Marc Lobliner and another highly rated TRT doctor who has talked about TRT at much higher doses, up to 600 MG's weekly, as being much better for males, as long as the sides are controlled but that "this will never happen in his lifetime, he doesn't prescribe more than 200 - 250 weekly, because the government would never allow it. Marc preached high normal, 1100 for busy makes who are going non stop, working out hard, and working hard. That's me. As many have wondered, and wished to try, I wanted to see if going from 610 to the high normal of 1100, would feel different. My mistake was believing my UGL Arimedex was "bunk", when in fact, it's obviously very real. I didn't notice any difference at all from 100 MG's a week to 200 MG's a week, micro-dosed daily. No dick changes. No libido increase. I have a new Girlfriend and luckily Peptide PT 141 works wonders for me, no matter what I'm taking, crashed estrogen and all, I still get hard throughout 40 hours and can satisfy her. Unfortunately, I don't really feel anything nor ever get off.
I'm not sure what I'll do next. My cholesterol numbers came back a shit ton better, dropping from 268 total to 192 with my HDL still in the mid 40's, Triglycerides in the 80's. That's significant. I will check my hematocrit with next weeks Estradiol test. I'm not sure where I'll go from here. Not sure if it's worth taking anything, TRT, or anything if I don't feel better than I did with low testosterone. The first 3 weeks were incredible, but virtually nothing after that. Dick worked just as badly as it did prior to TRT. Only saw a huge improvement the first 3 weeks on TRT. After that nothing.

 

[madman]

The first 3 weeks on TRT I was on 100 MG's weekly Testosterone Cypionate, and while days 5, 6, 7 didn't feel like days 1 - 4/5, everything was fantastic. I felt amazing. Best I've felt in a decade plus. But after those 3 weeks, it basically disappeared. No more crazy libido, no more need for sex really. I felt nothing. I was told here "that's the honeymoon phase, your body experiencing testosterone after being so short for year's". I was extremely disappointed. I also noticed significant nipple irritation, just like when I've done cycles in past years and I figured my estrogen was on the higher side. That's when I started taking a tiny bit of Arimedex, 1/2 mg twice a week, but nothing changed. No libido increases. No dick improvements. I didn't even care about sex.
I watched lots of videos on YouTube, including Marc Lobliner and another highly rated TRT doctor who has talked about TRT at much higher doses, up to 600 MG's weekly, as being much better for males, as long as the sides are controlled but that "this will never happen in his lifetime, he doesn't prescribe more than 200 - 250 weekly, because the government would never allow it. Marc preached high normal, 1100 for busy makes who are going non stop, working out hard, and working hard. That's me. As many have wondered, and wished to try, I wanted to see if going from 610 to the high normal of 1100, would feel different. My mistake was believing my UGL Arimedex was "bunk", when in fact, it's obviously very real. I didn't notice any difference at all from 100 MG's a week to 200 MG's a week, micro-dosed daily. No dick changes. No libido increase. I have a new Girlfriend and luckily Peptide PT 141 works wonders for me, no matter what I'm taking, crashed estrogen and all, I still get hard throughout 40 hours and can satisfy her. Unfortunately, I don't really feel anything nor ever get off.
I'm not sure what I'll do next. My cholesterol numbers came back a shit ton better, dropping from 268 total to 192 with my HDL still in the mid 40's, Triglycerides in the 80's. That's significant. I will check my hematocrit with next weeks Estradiol test. I'm not sure where I'll go from here. Not sure if it's worth taking anything, TRT, or anything if I don't feel better than I did with low testosterone. The first 3 weeks were incredible, but virtually nothing after that. Dick worked just as badly as it did prior to TRT. Only saw a huge improvement the first 3 weeks on TRT. After that nothing.

*I watched lots of videos on YouTube, including Marc Lobliner and another highly rated TRT doctor who has talked about TRT at much higher doses, up to 600 MG's weekly, as being much better for males, as long as the sides are controlled

This is pure nonsense!




*Marc preached high normal, 1100 for busy makes who are going non stop, working out hard, and working hard.

If you think one needs to be running a trough TT 1000+ ng/dL to achieve such then I feel for you man!

 

[Drug350]

This is pure nonsense!

*I watched lots of videos on YouTube, including Marc Lobliner and another highly rated TRT doctor who has talked about TRT at much higher doses, up to 600 MG's weekly, as being much better for males, as long as the sides are controlled



If you think one needs to be run trough TT 1000+ ng/dL to achieve such then I feel for you man!

*Marc preached high normal, 1100 for busy makes who are going non stop, working out hard, and working hard.

I'll attach the videos and you can watch them for yourself. I'm not saying "one must" one way, or the other. I'm trying to find out for myself. I said above I felt no difference being at 610 or 1143, so I'm not necessarily sold either way. But I am trying to find out why my libido, erections, etc... were incredible the first 3 weeks on TRT, than all vanished. I felt no different after those first 3 weeks than I did prior to starting TRT. If that's the case, what's the sense of even being on it ??? I'm serious. The only benefit I see now being on TRT vs prior, is my dick got back to normal size. That's it. But my balls have shrunk horribly. A fair trade off I suppose, but that's all I've seen or felt.

 

[Drug350]

This is pure nonsense!

*I watched lots of videos on YouTube, including Marc Lobliner and another highly rated TRT doctor who has talked about TRT at much higher doses, up to 600 MG's weekly, as being much better for males, as long as the sides are controlled



If you think one needs to be run trough TT 1000+ ng/dL to achieve such then I feel for you man!

*Marc preached high normal, 1100 for busy makes who are going non stop, working out hard, and working hard.

Here feel free to watch this knowledgeable TRT discuss "600 MG's Testosterone Cypionate weekly". He doesn't prescribe this whatsoever because he stays within government guidelines and obviously doesn't want to lose his license, but he does bring up factual data speaking about this amount. Take it any way you like. He believes in using what's necessary to get the results, be it at 500 NGDL or 1100ish+ NGDL.
Forward to the 5 minute mark if you care to skip the initial question regarding "what's too much".
Lastly, this guy's no idiot "quack doctor" either, no matter how you disagree with him.

 

[madman]

Here feel free to watch this knowledgeable TRT discuss "600 MG's Testosterone Cypionate weekly". He doesn't prescribe this whatsoever because he stays within government guidelines and obviously doesn't want to lose his license, but he does bring up factual data speaking about this amount. Take it any way you like. He believes in using what's necessary to get the results, be it at 500 NGDL or 1100ish+ NGDL.
Forward to the 5 minute mark if you care to skip the initial question regarding "what's too much".
Lastly, this guy's no idiot "quack doctor" either, no matter how you disagree with him.

Already know where he is coming from!

He is well-known for that cookie-cutter protocol you know the 200mg T/week with an AI thrown in to boot let alone keeping your estradiol in that so-called magical 20-30 range!

Not a fan.

Has anyone tried this method? Try it if you don't feel good

Some people say they only feel good for a couple weeks when they change their dosage, and then once blood stabilizes they feel like shit again Well try this, If you take 50mg twice a week, take 70 and 30 one week, next week 60-40, next week 50-50 then 70-30 again and repeat I'm coming into...

www.excelmale.com

*The men received either 600 mg of testosterone enanthate in sesame oil or placebo intramuscularly each week for 10 weeks in the Clinical Research Center. This dose is six times higher than the dose usually given as replacement therapy in men with hypogonadism and is therefore supraphysiologic. Doses as high as 300 mg per week have been given to normal men for 16 to 24 weeks without major toxic effects.34

Decreasing TRT dose leading to low libido

Hey guys. First post on this forum. I have been on TRT for a little over 2 years now. Here is my protocol: Test Cyp IM 250mg (125mg E3.5D) Arimidex 0.25mg EOD HCG 500IU SQ 3x a week Cialis 5mg Daily Latest Bloodwork on trough day: TT: 1490 ng/dL FT: 24ng/dL Estradiol (sensitive): 20pg/ml...

www.excelmale.com

 

[Drug350]

Already know where he is coming from!

He is well-known for that cookie-cutter protocol you know the 200mg T/week with an AI thrown in to boot let alone keeping your estradiol in that so-called magical 20-30 range!

Not a fan.

Has anyone tried this method? Try it if you don't feel good

Some people say they only feel good for a couple weeks when they change their dosage, and then once blood stabilizes they feel like shit again Well try this, If you take 50mg twice a week, take 70 and 30 one week, next week 60-40, next week 50-50 then 70-30 again and repeat I'm coming into...

www.excelmale.com

*The men received either 600 mg of testosterone enanthate in sesame oil or placebo intramuscularly each week for 10 weeks in the Clinical Research Center. This dose is six times higher than the dose usually given as replacement therapy in men with hypogonadism and is therefore supraphysiologic. Doses as high as 300 mg per week have been given to normal men for 16 to 24 weeks without major toxic effects.34

Decreasing TRT dose leading to low libido

Hey guys. First post on this forum. I have been on TRT for a little over 2 years now. Here is my protocol: Test Cyp IM 250mg (125mg E3.5D) Arimidex 0.25mg EOD HCG 500IU SQ 3x a week Cialis 5mg Daily Latest Bloodwork on trough day: TT: 1490 ng/dL FT: 24ng/dL Estradiol (sensitive): 20pg/ml...

www.excelmale.com

Actually it's "16 to 20 PGML" he recommends. Higher Estrogen is a precursor for prostate cancer, and he believes it's better to keep it lower, right around 16 - 20 PGML.
With that said, my Urologist will cut me off and reduce my testosterone if my level reaches 700 NGDL, which she sees as too high. That's bullshit, and I'm certain you would agree. So I'm left to figure it out myself if I want to save tens of thousands of dollars over my lifetime and get all my TRT for free through insurance or I can start paying 2 - 300.00 a month for the remainder of my life. I choose the former and will pay for a consult with other TRT doctors and see if I can eventually find the happy median for myself. I was actually able to get off twice today, which is a very good sign for me, as my estrogen must be rebounding slightly. I'll run bloods mid week again. I just wish it didn't take 8 days to get the results back from Discounted Labs. Other than the time frame, they are fantastic and easy to use.

 

[Systemlord]

Higher Estrogen is a precursor for prostate cancer

The estrogen is the smoke, not the fire. Inflammation is a hallmark of cancer, feeding on it.

You could point to the cause being high body fat, not taking care of one’s self and the consequence is high estrogen and lower testosterone, losing out on a hormone known for being anti-inflammatory.

 

[Drug350]

The estrogen is the smoke, not the fire. Inflammation is a hallmark of cancer, feeding on it.

You could point to the cause being high body fat, not taking care of one’s self and the consequence is high estrogen, the smoke, not the fire.

No offense, but I'm not "fat", do an hour of cardio 5 - 7 days a week, along with eat a lean diet and work out. I don't believe I fall into that category you mention at around 10% BF. Maybe I'm completely missing your point. Please accept my apology if I am.

 

[madman]

Actually it's "16 to 20 PGML" he recommends. Higher Estrogen is a precursor for prostate cancer, and he believes it's better to keep it lower, right around 16 - 20 PGML.
With that said, my Urologist will cut me off and reduce my testosterone if my level reaches 700 NGDL, which she sees as too high. That's bullshit, and I'm certain you would agree. So I'm left to figure it out myself if I want to save tens of thousands of dollars over my lifetime and get all my TRT for free through insurance or I can start paying 2 - 300.00 a month for the remainder of my life. I choose the former and will pay for a consult with other TRT doctors and see if I can eventually find the happy median for myself. I was actually able to get off twice today, which is a very good sign for me, as my estrogen must be rebounding slightly. I'll run bloods mid week again. I just wish it didn't take 8 days to get the results back from Discounted Labs. Other than the time frame, they are fantastic and easy to use.

*Actually it's "16 to 20 PGML" he recommends

My bad used to be 20-30 pg/mL!




*Higher Estrogen is a precursor for prostate cancer, and he believes it's better to keep it lower, right around 16 - 20 PGML.

Might want to take that one up with Dr. Morgentaler!

Testosterone Replacement Therapy and Prostate Cancer

Testosterone Therapy and Prostate Cancer Incorporating Low-Level Evidence into Practical Recommendations (2023) Alvaro Morales, MD, CM, FRCSC*, D. Robert Siemens, MD, FRCSC1 INTRODUCTION In men’s health, 2 fields share the characteristics of being both controversial and involving several...

www.excelmale.com

*With that said, my Urologist will cut me off and reduce my testosterone if my level reaches 700 NGDL, which she sees as too high. That's bullshit, and I'm certain you would agree.

Most definitely!


Let this burn in your dome!

Why many lower their dose on ED injections

I've been reading online people lower their total weekly dose once they go from 2x or eod to once a day. What's the science behind that?

www.excelmale.com

 

[Drug350]

*Actually it's "16 to 20 PGML" he recommends

My bad used to be 20-30 pg/mL!




*Higher Estrogen is a precursor for prostate cancer, and he believes it's better to keep it lower, right around 16 - 20 PGML.

Might want to take that one up with Dr. Morgentaler!

Testosterone Replacement Therapy and Prostate Cancer

Testosterone Therapy and Prostate Cancer Incorporating Low-Level Evidence into Practical Recommendations (2023) Alvaro Morales, MD, CM, FRCSC*, D. Robert Siemens, MD, FRCSC1 INTRODUCTION In men’s health, 2 fields share the characteristics of being both controversial and involving several...

www.excelmale.com

*With that said, my Urologist will cut me off and reduce my testosterone if my level reaches 700 NGDL, which she sees as too high. That's bullshit, and I'm certain you would agree.

Most definitely!


Let this burn in your dome!

Why many lower their dose on ED injections

I've been reading online people lower their total weekly dose once they go from 2x or eod to once a day. What's the science behind that?

www.excelmale.com

I read as much as that article as I could with regards to "prostate cancer" but I'm not going to pretend I understand even a tenth of what he's saying. I honestly view it as a differing opinion, which may or may not be, correct.
I'll drop my daily dose back down to 5 CC's daily, which will equate to approximately 70 MG's total a week and see where my numbers fall and if I notice any changes. I'm not expecting to notice any changes physically, libido, erections, etc....., though the numbers will certainly drop significantly.