Nandrolone Issues

[DarkMan X]

More than 6 months ago, I was started on Nandrolone decanoate ON TOP of my regular TRT because Defy judged that my back pain would greatly benefit from beefing up/strengthening my back muscles. I was assigned to take 0.15 mL's twice a week. But even at such a small dose, the Nandrolone always worsened my insomnia and headaches.

On July 19th, I did my first ever blood donation to lower my hematocrit and to lower my blood thickness caused by too many red blood cells. I was reading that Nandrolone also "doubles" the amount of red blood cells created as opposed to T-cypionate alone.

Since my donation basically cleared out all extra red blood cells out of my blood, could that mean that trying Nandrolone now can actually feel better (meaning no insomnia and no headaches?)

I feel bad that I had to turn down such a valuable medication like Nandrolone (an opportunity that most suffering people cannot even access), and now I just have to basically depend on my old opiate painkillers.

I really wish the Nandrolone could beef up the muscles in my back and end my dependence on painkillers. (That's what the Defy Med Nurse Practitioner said anyway)

 

[Fortunate]

More than 6 months ago, I was started on Nandrolone decanoate ON TOP of my regular TRT because Defy judged that my back pain would greatly benefit from beefing up/strengthening my back muscles. I was assigned to take 0.15 mL's twice a week. But even at such a small dose, the Nandrolone always worsened my insomnia and headaches.

On July 19th, I did my first ever blood donation to lower my hematocrit and to lower my blood thickness caused by too many red blood cells. I was reading that Nandrolone also "doubles" the amount of red blood cells created as opposed to T-cypionate alone.

Since my donation basically cleared out all extra red blood cells out of my blood, could that mean that trying Nandrolone now can actually feel better (meaning no insomnia and no headaches?)

I feel bad that I had to turn down such a valuable medication like Nandrolone (an opportunity that most suffering people cannot even access), and now I just have to basically depend on my old opiate painkillers.

I really wish the Nandrolone could beef up the muscles in my back and end my dependence on painkillers. (That's what the Defy Med Nurse Practitioner said anyway)

I would strongly recommend avoiding opioids at all cost. Is not a good long-term solution and will absolutely suppress whatever endogenous production you still have. it tends to be a one-way street. Easy to go down, but almost impossible to turn around.

There a lots of alternatives (physical therapy, lyrica, gabapentin, ***, epidural injections, etc).

 

[Dog427]

More than 6 months ago, I was started on Nandrolone decanoate ON TOP of my regular TRT because Defy judged that my back pain would greatly benefit from beefing up/strengthening my back muscles. I was assigned to take 0.15 mL's twice a week. But even at such a small dose, the Nandrolone always worsened my insomnia and headaches.

On July 19th, I did my first ever blood donation to lower my hematocrit and to lower my blood thickness caused by too many red blood cells. I was reading that Nandrolone also "doubles" the amount of red blood cells created as opposed to T-cypionate alone.

Since my donation basically cleared out all extra red blood cells out of my blood, could that mean that trying Nandrolone now can actually feel better (meaning no insomnia and no headaches?)

I feel bad that I had to turn down such a valuable medication like Nandrolone (an opportunity that most suffering people cannot even access), and now I just have to basically depend on my old opiate painkillers.

I really wish the Nandrolone could beef up the muscles in my back and end my dependence on painkillers. (That's what the Defy Med Nurse Practitioner said anyway)

I would avoid opiates like the plague. I started low dose Nandrolone and it 6 weeks for my body to adjust to no side effects.

Might consider giving it some time and seeing if side effects fade.

 

[bixt]

But even at such a small dose, the Nandrolone always worsened my insomnia and headaches.

I really wish the Nandrolone could beef up the muscles in my back and end my dependence on painkillers. (That's what the Defy Med Nurse Practitioner said anyway)

Here's an idea: Use the nandrolone for 8-10 weeks as one would on a steroid cycle. During that time, you take full advantage of the extra anabolism to "beef up your back muscles" as you put it. Then you cycle off the nandrolone and maintain those muscles with regular training and regular TRT. You may have to repeat this at intervals.

Side effects are much more palatable when you have a certain time frame to endure them as opposed to forever.

 

[madman]

More than 6 months ago, I was started on Nandrolone decanoate ON TOP of my regular TRT because Defy judged that my back pain would greatly benefit from beefing up/strengthening my back muscles. I was assigned to take 0.15 mL's twice a week. But even at such a small dose, the Nandrolone always worsened my insomnia and headaches.

On July 19th, I did my first ever blood donation to lower my hematocrit and to lower my blood thickness caused by too many red blood cells. I was reading that Nandrolone also "doubles" the amount of red blood cells created as opposed to T-cypionate alone.

Since my donation basically cleared out all extra red blood cells out of my blood, could that mean that trying Nandrolone now can actually feel better (meaning no insomnia and no headaches?)

I feel bad that I had to turn down such a valuable medication like Nandrolone (an opportunity that most suffering people cannot even access), and now I just have to basically depend on my old opiate painkillers.

I really wish the Nandrolone could beef up the muscles in my back and end my dependence on painkillers. (That's what the Defy Med Nurse Practitioner said anyway)

Post labs TT, FT, estradiol, SHBG, CBC which includes (RBCs/hemoglobin/hematocrit) and your TC protocol (dose/injection frequency).

For all, we know your FT level may be too high which can easily drive up your RBCs/hemoglobin/hematocrit let alone adding in the low dose ND brings up your overall weekly dose of androgens.

Although ND can drive up RBCs/hemoglobin/hematocrit it is far from common that a low dose of ND would have a significant impact.

Comes down to the individual.

Keep in mind that testosterone has a tonic effect on the CNS and can easily make one feel amped up and can cause insomnia in some.

All androgens even the ones that do not aromatize can make the body hold water due to the retention of electrolytes.

You can easily improve body composition (muscle/fat loss) using therapeutic doses of T when following a proper diet/training protocol.

When it comes to adding muscle mass diet/training is key!

Highly doubtful that 60 mg ND/week is going to have a big impact on increasing muscle mass as the dose is too low.

Most are using therapeutic doses of 50-100 mg/week for relief/improvement of joint/bone pain.

Rare anyone would use <100 mg ND/week for the sole purpose of increasing muscle mass/strength.

If you find that the low dose ND helps with alleviating the pain minus any sides then do what you feel is best for you.

Depending on where your FT level sits you may very well be able to lower your T dose slightly and keep using the low dose ND.

Post your T protocol/labs!

 

[DarkMan X]

Here's an idea: Use the nandrolone for 8-10 weeks as one would on a steroid cycle. During that time, you take full advantage of the extra anabolism to "beef up your back muscles" as you put it. Then you cycle off the nandrolone and maintain those muscles with regular training and regular TRT. You may have to repeat this at intervals.

Side effects are much more palatable when you have a certain time frame to endure them as opposed to forever.

Since I'm not a regular steroid user, I'm not familiar with the phrases "cycle on" and "cycle off". Can you please put those in layman's terms for me? Thanks.

 

[DarkMan X]

MOST people will not really understand my strange reactions and side effects to seemingly innocuous medications like Nandrolone.

But since 2006, I have become that "rare 1% of cases" that science simply cannot find explanations for.

 

[tareload]

seemingly innocuous medications like Nandrolone.

Never seen those two words in the same sentence. Don't worry you aren't the only one. Hang in there.

 

[Phil Goodman]

The more important question here is “what does your back routine look like?”. Why would you need that to strengthen your back?

 

[DarkMan X]

The more important question here is “what does your back routine look like?”. Why would you need that to strengthen your back?

I go to physical therapy twice a week. This is with an actual doctor of physical therapy, not some personal trainer (which usually has less than 6 months of education in the field).

 

[Guided_by_Voices]

As someone who has also dealt with severe back pain (that is now thankfully resolved) I would strongly recommend checking out the books and podcasts of Dr. Stu McGill. Back issues are a huge topic but many of us on here including me have gotten relief using his techniques. You might also post what you have tried in the way of back improvement techniques so that others can chime in on other things you can try.

On the muscle front, you might also try Oxandrolone.

 

[bixt]

Since I'm not a regular steroid user, I'm not familiar with the phrases "cycle on" and "cycle off". Can you please put those in layman's terms for me? Thanks.

But my instructions were crystal clear...

Use the nandrolone for 8-10 weeks. During that time, you take full advantage of the extra anabolism to "beef up your back muscles" as you put it. Then you cycle off the nandrolone and maintain those muscles with regular training and regular TRT. You may have to repeat this at intervals.

Cycle off = stop using it

 

[DarkMan X]

Would you say that Nandrolone is fairly safe compared to other steroids that those big-time athletes and bodybuilders use? Because I once saw a short film about the misery that Cris Cyborg goes through before each one of her fights. Seeing such a tough woman like HER crying, made me wanna cry for her.

I actually DID try Epidural injection once. I really don't know why anyone would suggest shoving a 3 inch needle straight into your spine.

My own orthopedist said: "If your pain is under control with your opiate, then we thankfully do not need to consider more invasive things (like epidurals)".

The only doctors that push patients into invasive things like epidurals are the more greedy doctors because the more invasive the treatment, the more the doctor gets paid.

 

[bixt]

Would you say that Nandrolone is fairly safe compared to other steroids that those big-time athletes and bodybuilders use?

Nandrolone IS the steroid that big time bodybuilders use (at least for gaining size, its one of the primary ones).

Athletes - thats a completely different ballgame using fast acting steroid protocols not applicable to us.

The main problems with nandrolone (from browsing various forums) are dick issues and various neurotransmitter issues.

Other than that, nandrolone has a mild side effect profile.

For your use case, it would appear that low dose nandrolone could be indicated. Something like 50mg-100mg testosterone and 100mg nandrolone a week.

As i suggested in an earlier post, you could even use it temporarily to strengthen the back muscles and then discontinue use. In that case, I would use double the above dose of nandrolone.

Unless you try it, you will never really know how it affects you. If you do decide to use it, please dont forget to update us every now and then.

 

[Fortunate]

Would you say that Nandrolone is fairly safe compared to other steroids that those big-time athletes and bodybuilders use? Because I once saw a short film about the misery that Cris Cyborg goes through before each one of her fights. Seeing such a tough woman like HER crying, made me wanna cry for her.

I actually DID try Epidural injection once. I really don't know why anyone would suggest shoving a 3 inch needle straight into your spine.

My own orthopedist said: "If your pain is under control with your opiate, then we thankfully do not need to consider more invasive things (like epidurals)".

The only doctors that push patients into invasive things like epidurals are the more greedy doctors because the more invasive the treatment, the more the doctor gets paid.

I respect your pain and wish you didn't have it, but the attitude that "more invasive the treatment, the more the doctor gets paid." is misguided and cynical. If your doctor is not a spine surgeon, then he or she gets paid zero dollars and zero cents for referring you to someone who can do an epidural injection. If you doctor is a spine, then he or she would make a whole lot more money operating on you then just injecting you.

If you do not trust the recommendations and/or opinions of your spine surgeon, then I suggest getting another one. By all means, you should empower yourself by learning and asking forum members what they think, but I is also important to trust the expert who most likely has your best interest in mind when giving recommendations.

I am not suggesting that nandrolone will solve all your problems. I am, however, suggesting that opioids will NOT. They will only cause more problems. Once you are no longer opioid naive, your receptors will regulate themselves, making it necessary to push the dose higher and higher to achieve the same pain relief. Along with that comes all sorts of issues, such as chronic constipation, testosterone suppression, not to mention physical dependance.

There is no personal judgment here - just what I believe to be true. If there is absolutely no option available, and opioids are literally the only way to have any quality of life, then maybe there's a role, but in my humble opinion, it should be a last resort.

 

[Sly]

80-100mg Nandrolone a week has been a godsend for my arthritis, particularly my elbow where I had bone spurs removed and have no cartilage there. When I first started using it, it raised my HCT a bit, but now a couple years later, I cycle it 6mos on 6mos off and it has little to no effect on my HCT or anything else.

 

[Sly]

I take Oxandrolone on the off months, it works also, just not as good as Nandrolone at relieving joint pain.

 

[bixt]

80-100mg Nandrolone a week has been a godsend for my arthritis, particularly my elbow where I had bone spurs removed and have no cartilage there. When I first started using it, it raised my HCT a bit, but now a couple years later, I cycle it 6mos on 6mos off and it has little to no effect on my HCT or anything else.

Excellent use of nandrolone, this is exactly how its supposed to be used. Any potential neuro issues are probably far mitigated by the pain relief and quality of life improvements.

On the other hand those using it for a "boost" or "add on" because they haven't dialled in their TRT are misguided into thinking nandrolone will improve their mood and drive. All my other posts condemning the use of nandrolone are related to this latter case.

 

[JimGainz]

I concur with many of the above and that the therapeutic use of Nandrolone is extremely beneficial. I have been a long-term user and literally don’t think I could stand to survive without it - it has been amazing for me in many ways.

I’m wondering if the OP’s insomnia was related to altering the dose of opiates when starting Nandrolone. Typically Nandrolone at the dose that was described would seldom cause headaches, insomnia or the massive amount of red blood increases. As other posters of commented, it may be the testosterone dose is simply too high and so adding even a little bit more androgens on top of that threw everything out of balance.

For what it’s worth I was taking 40 mg of testosterone every three days along with 60 mg Nandrolone since March, I just gave blood and my hemaglobin was 17.4 – which isn’t too bad considering.

 

[Sly]

My Hemoglobin is 17.4 also! This is on 200mg test/100mg Nandrolone per week. This is one of my best hemoglobin readings in years. I’ve been as high as 22 and 19 is usually my norm. I’ve been on TRT for 5 years now, testosterone for 5 and added Nandrolone 2 years ago. I believe that staying on Nandrolone for 6mos at a time has helped me stabilize.