Minimum test to get a growth advantage

[kraken]

I am 60yo and have been strength training for years. I'm 5ft 6in, 140 pounds and probably about 15% BF. Thats a rough guess but a year ago DEXA said 12.9% but I have been out of the gym for some of 2025 due to some surgeries. So I lost a little muscle and gained a little fat in that time.

I have been on TRT for years, and I recently have tried some "TRT Plus" to see if I can add a little muscle. At 280 mg/week my E2 was at 100 pg/ml and my hematocrit was high. Free test was 238.3pg/mL and total was 797ng/dL. So it seems a lot of side effects for not much total test, although the free test was okay. I do not have acne or hair loss. Oh, I also use HCG to keep my testicles from shrinking. I'm not concerned about fertility. I also use Reta to keep my appetite under control, eating maintenance calories on training days and a 400 calorie deficit on rest days. I eat 150g protein daily.

When I saw the lab work a few weeks ago I was particularly concerned about the E2 and hematocrit so I reduced the test cyp to 200 mg / weekly and added some primo (100 mg / week) in an effort to maintain the growth potential and lower the E2. I'll get blood work at the end of January.

As far as hematocrit, Red Cross won't take my blood and there is nowhere else near me to donate.

So it seems to get hematocrit and E2 down I need to reduce test as I have. I prefer not to use an AI since those could crash my E2 down to very little, and I am aware that I need some for a few reasons.

My question is, am I on the right track by lowering the test and adding some primo? The goal is to add some muscle and drop some fat with minimal side effects. I'm not trying to look like Arnold, just have reasonable strength for my sports (I'm very active) and a descent looking body. I know everyone is different, but in general whats the best strategy?

 

[Vince]

I am 60yo and have been strength training for years. I'm 5ft 6in, 140 pounds and probably about 15% BF. Thats a rough guess but a year ago DEXA said 12.9% but I have been out of the gym for some of 2025 due to some surgeries. So I lost a little muscle and gained a little fat in that time.

I have been on TRT for years, and I recently have tried some "TRT Plus" to see if I can add a little muscle. At 280 mg/week my E2 was at 100 pg/ml and my hematocrit was high. Free test was 238.3pg/mL and total was 797ng/dL. So it seems a lot of side effects for not much total test, although the free test was okay. I do not have acne or hair loss. Oh, I also use HCG to keep my testicles from shrinking. I'm not concerned about fertility. I also use Reta to keep my appetite under control, eating maintenance calories on training days and a 400 calorie deficit on rest days. I eat 150g protein daily.

When I saw the lab work a few weeks ago I was particularly concerned about the E2 and hematocrit so I reduced the test cyp to 200 mg / weekly and added some primo (100 mg / week) in an effort to maintain the growth potential and lower the E2. I'll get blood work at the end of January.

As far as hematocrit, Red Cross won't take my blood and there is nowhere else near me to donate.

So it seems to get hematocrit and E2 down I need to reduce test as I have. I prefer not to use an AI since those could crash my E2 down to very little, and I am aware that I need some for a few reasons.

My question is, am I on the right track by lowering the test and adding some primo? The goal is to add some muscle and drop some fat with minimal side effects. I'm not trying to look like Arnold, just have reasonable strength for my sports (I'm very active) and a descent looking body. I know everyone is different, but in general whats the best strategy?

You didn't say what HCT is at. Anyways, I would reduce my testosterone to 100 mg a week, plus the HCG. It would probably be best to even lower it more. To lower my HCT I went to daily injections and now I inject 16 mg daily plus every third day I inject 500 IU of HCG. I haven't had to donate blood now for over 9 years. I don't know if it's because of my daily injections or my HCT just stabilized.

 

[Seagal]

I think you need to add more calories and just do TRT plus Reta. Have you tried that?

 

[kraken]

HCT is at 58.6%, Hemoglobin 19 g/dL and RDW 15.2%.

100 mg / week of test seems pretty low, but would you keep the primo?

 

[kraken]

I think you need to add more calories and just do TRT plus Reta. Have you tried that?

No, the more calories part scares me a bit. I don't want to pick up much body fat. I don't think I'm quite lean enough yet to start adding a lot of calories.

 

[Phil Goodman]

Everyone wants a different physique and has different fitness goals, but the first thing that jumps out to me from your post is that you’re 140 lbs and in a caloric deficit. For what I consider a good physique, I don’t think you’re gonna get there with your current plan no matter what compounds you take.

What are your goals for fitness?

What would you consider an ideal physique(which famous people would you like to look like)?

What is your current gym routine?

 

[Seagal]

No, the more calories part scares me a bit. I don't want to pick up much body fat. I don't think I'm quite lean enough yet to start adding a lot of calories.

Too bad. Since you are sort of lean, you should increase to at least maintenance calories and track your subcutaneous fat.

 

[kraken]

Great questions, thank you. I'll answer below...

Everyone wants a different physique and has different fitness goals, but the first thing that jumps out to me from your post is that you’re 140 lbs and in a caloric deficit.

I think my maintenance is 2,000 cal per day, so yes I'm in a small 1,200 per week deficit, applied on rest days.

For what I consider a good physique, I don’t think you’re gonna get there with your current plan no matter what compounds you take.

What are your goals for fitness?

My goals are more around performance. I am not a competitive body builder or really a body builder at all. I participate in high performance dinghy sailing, trail riding and hiking. Sailing requires a good level of strength all over, especially core, and some flexibility. So I'm looking for strong legs, for sure, but also strong core and solid upper body.

What would you consider an ideal physique(which famous people would you like to look like)?

Beats me. In my experience a good looking physique follows strength and being lean. I don't have any particular body parts I want to work on or anyone else I was thinking I want to look like. I don't want to look like Arnold, Charles Atlas and so on. Well we all want definition in our core, so I'll take that!

What is your current gym routine?

Currently four days upper / lower split very much like Strong Lifts Ultra. Monday and Thursday are lower (to give more recovery time) and Tuesday / Friday upper. Lower is predominantly barbell squats and deadlifts. Upper is bench press, overhead press and seated rows, but I have been adding in dumbbell laterals and pullups.

While I was on a forced break after shoulder, butt and hernia surgeries, I lost some strength (meaning my numbers went down) but I managed to avoid getting fat with careful eating. Now I want to build back to where I was and exceed it.

I do bench twice per week, but I was thinking of replacing one of those with incline dumbbell chest press. My concern is that neither would have sufficient volume to be effective so it could be a net loss. Still need to research that.

 

[Vince]

HCT is at 58.6%, Hemoglobin 19 g/dL and RDW 15.2%.

100 mg / week of test seems pretty low, but would you keep the primo?

primo, I wouldn't use it. With HCT of 58% I would stop T for at least a week and just inject 10 mg daily until your HCT is good. You may want to find out if there's another reason why your HCT is so high. We do have lots of good threads on the subject.