Metformin as an Aromatase Inhibitor?

[jaimeruiz99]

Getting right to the point, study upon study has shown that Metformin appears to be an efficacious aromatase inhibitor.

For those of you taking it with TRT, have you noticed any low E2 related symptoms associated with its use?

On a side note, this might just solve the myriad of E2 related issues people are experiencing on TRT, eliminating the need for harsh aromatase inhibitors entirely.

https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/10.1161/HYPERTENSIONAHA.116.07353

Dual effect of metformin on growth inhibition and oestradiol production in breast cancer cells

Evidence has been accumulating for a role for metformin in reducing breast cancer risk in post-menopausal women. It inhibits growth of breast cancer cells via several mechanisms, primarily the AMPK/mTOR signalling pathway. Another possible protective mechanism may be the ability of metformin to...

www.spandidos-publications.com

 

[Gman86]

That’s very interesting actually. Was doing a bunch of research on natural E2 inhibitors, as I want to avoid an ai if possible. Metformin never came up, but obviously DIM did, and I ended up ruling it out for me as a possibility because it looks like it’s also an anti androgen, and anti growth compound, which is a no go for me with wanting to continue to gain a bit of muscle tissue. DIM has been shown to decrease MTOR as well as IGF-1 levels, just like metformin. It’s just interesting that sometimes when a plant derived compound lowers E2, it can also lower MTOR IGF-1 as well. Just finding it interesting that the 3 can sometimes go hand and hand apparently. Wonder what the evolutionary reason for this is.

 

[Cataceous]

It is an interesting effect, but do you know if it is significant in vivo at reasonable doses? What specifically makes a conventional AI "harsh" compared to metformin? While it's easy to crash estradiol with regular AIs, that's arguably a result of only having access to breast cancer-sized doses—and doctors who don't know better. For example, if anastrozole tablets came in multiples of 10 mcg, which would make it simple to take 100-500 mcg per week with precision, then overdosing would be less of a problem.

 

[Fernando Almaguer]

No wonder! Metformin taken at night along a t dose or a couple of days after a t dose, I feel lean and strong and in a less bloated state. Overall, a much healthier , although can have a little fatigue due to less sugar in my blood. Interesting stuff wow !!

 

[TheDracus]

Metformin also tanks tetestorone as well.

 

[jaimeruiz99]

It is an interesting effect, but do you know if it is significant in vivo at reasonable doses? What specifically makes a conventional AI "harsh" compared to metformin? While it's easy to crash estradiol with regular AIs, that's arguably a result of only having access to breast cancer-sized doses—and doctors who don't know better. For example, if anastrozole tablets came in multiples of 10 mcg, which would make it simple to take 100-500 mcg per week with precision, then overdosing would be less of a problem.

Well, yes.

Hyperinsulinemia is a factor in excessive aromatization. The production of insulin stimulates aromatase. Metformin reduces insulin, thereby curbing the activity of aromatase via the aforementioned downstream mechanism.

Do note that I am not advocating the use of Metformin as an aromatase inhibitor in cases where estradiol is significantly above threshold values, such as cases where someone is running a cycle dose.

Where I find it's value is in cases of men running reasonable doses of testosterone per week, who appear to have issues getting testosterone to within range but are not significantly above threshold values. These men would be better served running a small dose of Metformin per day, which will allow estradiol to dip just below the threshold and stay within range.

For example: we have person running 100 mg of testosterone per week but their estradiol is 10 or perhaps 20 points above the laboratory limit. Not all that high, but producing very minor symptoms regardless (water retention and slight emotionality). Rather than using an AI, they can utilize Metformin, which can bring their levels to within range or just slightly above it, with absolutely no risk of crashing their estradiol or having to deal with compounding microdoses of Arimidex.

In cases where the same person has an estradiol double the laboratory limit however, then yes, it might be argued that Arimidex is a better solution.

 

[jaimeruiz99]

Yes, but only in natural men who are not on TRT, and it does so via the same mechanism as the manner by which it reduces hyperandrogenic symptoms in PCOS patients (hyperinsulinemia causes a spike in FSH which causes androgen producing cells to increase their production).

In cases where a man's HPTA-axis is of no relevance given the presence of exogenous testosterone, Metformin should not have that effect.

 

[jaimeruiz99]

No wonder! Metformin taken at night along a t dose or a couple of days after a t dose, I feel lean and strong and in a less bloated state. Overall, a much healthier , although can have a little fatigue due to less sugar in my blood. Interesting stuff wow !!

I get the same symptoms of fatigue when running Metformin. I find that taking my dose before bed eliminates the problem entirely.

 

[jaimeruiz99]

That’s very interesting actually. Was doing a bunch of research on natural E2 inhibitors, as I want to avoid an ai if possible. Metformin never came up, but obviously DIM did, and I ended up ruling it out for me as a possibility because it looks like it’s also an anti androgen, and anti growth compound, which is a no go for me with wanting to continue to gain a bit of muscle tissue. DIM has been shown to decrease MTOR as well as IGF-1 levels, just like metformin. It’s just interesting that sometimes when a plant derived compound lowers E2, it can also lower MTOR IGF-1 as well. Just finding it interesting that the 3 can sometimes go hand and hand apparently. Wonder what the evolutionary reason for this is.

To add to your statement, I have a corollary: I am running HGH as well on top of testosterone.

I use the Metformin to keep glucose issues associated with HGH in check and to keep my estradiol in range. The deficits associated with Metformin arguably won't apply to someone running HGH given that the latter increases IGF-1 and MTOR.

Point being, using Metformin might not be for everyone, but it's use in people taking both TRT and HGH is very enticing.

 

[Fernando Almaguer]

To add to your statement, I have a corollary: I am running HGH as well on top of testosterone.

I use the Metformin to keep glucose issues associated with HGH in check and to keep my estradiol in range. The deficits associated with Metformin arguably won't apply to someone running HGH given that the latter increases IGF-1 and MTOR.

Point being, using Metformin might not be for everyone, but it's use in people taking both TRT and HGH is very enticing.

Were you prediabetic? or taking for longevity purposes?

 

[jaimeruiz99]

The use of HGH causes glycemic issues to occur in certain individuals, particularly if one were taking it at dosages well above recommended for anti aging, so I was taking it for both reasons mentioned.

 

[Fernando Almaguer]

The use of HGH causes glycemic issues to occur in certain individuals, particularly if one were taking it at dosages well above recommended for anti aging, so I was taking it for both reasons mentioned.

awesome man, let us ride the met wave!

 

[jordypreliminary]

What if it turned out that I have PCOS and it's dangerous or me to take pills any longer?