Low DHEA question

[Shawn]

I took trenbolone 20 years ago that left me with permanent damage to my adrenal glands. I don't require medication like hydrocortisone or cortef but it left me feeling weak ever since I was 22 (I'm now 41). It took me 2 decades to discover that DHEA was an important hormone and that the tren damaged my adrenal cortex (to some degree) which produces cortisol, DHEA and aldosterone. All are low.

Nobody ever tests for DHEA much. all the endos look for is just low T. and while mine is low, even when I was on it for 8 years straight (80-100mg/week with hcg), my "tren damage" never resolved so I came off because testosterone swells up my prostate even if my estrogen is low, it still does it a bit and messes with my sometimes nearly non-existent orgasm intensity (and low at best) that the tren damaged. It also caused abdominal pain that never goes away, strong in the morning. This happened one day when I was 22. All the symptoms showed up. I think it messed with my orgasms a couple days before the abdominal pain set in. Now I just can't digest a lot of food (its the intestines, not the stomach). So I ended up dropping down to really low bodyweight after I stopped TRT. My test is about 200-340ng. Yes I feel like crap if I try to train and my sex drive isn't that high.

I wonder if anyone else has these symptoms from low DHEA and if they were resolved. I bought some Douglas Labs 5mg sublinguals but hesitant to take it.

Just did labs recently and came back at 110 (range is 93 - 415). I also did the dutch test and they only test urine metabolites. It was 61 (range 31 - 1500). My free cortisol is perfect but my metabolites are BELOW the bottom range on that dutch test. So not sure who to believe but I do feel it is sub-par. I would say that the DHEA (the androgen part of the cortex) is more screwed because I took an extreme androgen which is what tren is. That dutch test is purely saliva and urine only. The DHEA-S test I recently did was a serum.

 

[M!ck]

I’m following your journey, my DHEA is 160 with the same ref range. Natural test between 290-400.
Interesting is your story about the abdominal pain, I did once a sarms cycle couple of years ago and woke up in the middle of the night with that pain too. After that I was feeling worse, less energy than I used to have.

What I have read a DHEA supplementation for males is not really recommended as it basically converts to estrogen. But also found some success stories. Why not give it a try?

 

[t_spacemonkey]

been taking 25mg dhea since starting TRT. no ill effects I know of. top of range (370 or something). 5mg is pretty low for a guy, it is more a female dose

 

[M!ck]

OP is off from test, on trt it makes sense to support the adrenals.

 

[Shawn]

the 5mg is a sublingual dose. it is equal to 25mg of the regular capsules because it does not have to pass through the digestive tract or liver. i believe i will be starting this DHEA soon because no herbs have been able to raise it enough. i just hope it doesn't cause weird side effects or shut down my own production, but i've heard it can't do that because there are not DHEA receptors but who knows. i don't believe anything anymore.

the abdominal pain is bad in the morning no matter what. it is only a result of either low aldosterone, cortisol or DHEA or all 3. it seems to subside as the day goes by but that is only if i stick within my parameters of specific foods. i don't eat fast food or mix too many things. if i do, i will have more issues. its only in the intestines.

 

[M!ck]

the 5mg is a sublingual dose. it is equal to 25mg of the regular capsules because it does not have to pass through the digestive tract or liver. i believe i will be starting this DHEA soon because no herbs have been able to raise it enough. i just hope it doesn't cause weird side effects or shut down my own production, but i've heard it can't do that because there are not DHEA receptors but who knows. i don't believe anything anymore.

the abdominal pain is bad in the morning no matter what. it is only a result of either low aldosterone, cortisol or DHEA or all 3. it seems to subside as the day goes by but that is only if i stick within my parameters of specific foods. i don't eat fast food or mix too many things. if i do, i will have more issues. its only in the intestines.

Keep us updated about your journey

 

[t_spacemonkey]

good luck buddy. i would not expect miracles tbh. how do you think your adrenals burned out? i would rather assume your issues are CNS related. i abused amphetamines in my 20's and felt like shit for years afterwards. i would look into brain energy, and ofc optimize diet, HRT etc as well. but not sure your issue is adrenal related

 

[Shawn]

i did mention i took trenbolone. this "steroid" which doesn't deserve to be even called one, seems like it damaged my adrenal cortex to a degree. the cortex produces cortisol, aldosterone and DHEA. my aldosterone tested bottom range and so did DHEA. cortisol comes back perfect but maybe that is due to 2 theories.

the first theory is that the tren, being a strong androgen, targeted (and damaged) mostly the DHEA cells in the adrenal cortex but also did slightly damage cells that produce aldosterone and some cortisol since my cortisol metabolites were very low (so were DHEA metabolites) via the DUTCH test. even serum was low for DHEA. tested cortisol twice with perfect free levels. if this theory is true, i need to use DHEA (that may lower my cortisol so i would need to add licorice root to prevent that).

the 2nd theory is that it damaged all cells evenly, but since the body has a priority to produce cortisol for survival, it "steals" it from most of the DHEA production. when it gets enough for its survival, so long as i keep my stress levels as low as possible by basically having no life, then it produces what little DHEA i do produce. but i'm not sure and nobody will know for at least a couple hundred more years

 

[sammmy]

If you have chronic abdominal pain, the logical thing is to investigate your digestive tract. It may be a time coincidence the pain started when you were taking trenbolone. Not everything is about hormones.

A good intestinal anti-inflammatory is 5g (teaspoon) L-Glutamine in a cup of water. You can also try digestive enzymes, in case you are deficient. Yogurt and probiotics are another try.

A good gastroenterologist should be able to test you for the usual suspects: Crohn, Celiac etc.

 

[Shawn]

it is not a coincidence. it took me nearly 2 decades to realize that it is my adrenal glands that were damaged (to a degree) i tried all that. it doesn't help. i got it all down to adrenal hormones. i've been asking men on other forums if they have abdominal pain from low DHEA and they say they do as well. mine seems to subside as the day goes by but that is also because i hardly eat anything too. if it isn't from low DHEA, it is from low aldosterone or low cortisol metabolites. the same adrenal cortex.

 

[sammmy]

Did you go to a gastroenterologist to do all the testing for inflammatory bowel diseases, intestinal infections, gastritis, colitis, upper endoscopy and colonoscopy?

If low DHEA is involved in your intestinal pain, popping a DHEA pill should resolve it. Or it may cover it up, because DHEA may be anti-inflammatory and you are describing chronic intestinal inflammation.

 

[Shawn]

i appreciate your input but i have not actually gone that far because at this point i figure doctors wouldn't be able to figure out the root cause. they'll just tell me i have "inflammation" because clearly something will come up. there might be one doctor out somewhere that can correlate my low DHEA to inflammation causing this (i would have to explain this all to him) but 99% are too stupid to figure that out. plus, i know my body. they don't. i'm sure they'll give me some other weird drug to cover it up.

there is only 1-3 things causing this. they are the 3 hormones from the adrenal cortex: DHEA, cortisol, and aldosterone. for low DHEA, there is DHEA supplementation. for the cortisol issue, thankfully there is licorice root. finally, my low aldosterone can be increased via potassium.

i think HCG does raise it but i'd rather just use straight DHEA and if i can't tolerate it for some reason (not just e2 as I can use an AI for that) but heart sides or some other weird shit, then i'll be forced to use HCG and other herbs with an AI. and i hate dealing with HCG because it is expensive and you have to refrigerate it. they should invent a version you don't have to refrigerate.

it's taken me almost 20 years to figure this out. all the chinese doctors would just tell me weak Kidney energy (their version of Kidney isn't kidney but rather the adrenal glands). but i didn't know that until the one I see from time to time told me that. since then, I started doing research and ended up learning about the adrenal cortex. i never paid much attention to DHEA. I did not know it was an adrenal hormone til recently and voila it is low.

this is why every chinese doc tells me my Kidney "yang" energy which is the masculine part is low. and DHEA is the masculine part. the Kidney yang provides all the yang for the body. I know that i'm going off track here for the "west" but the spleen/stomach system dominates digestion so that yang is weak because my Kidney yang is weak. that is their system. i could only figure this out by combining both systems because in the east, they just give you herbs but herbs aren't enough. in the west, they would never be able to figure anything out, they would just give me some drug to cover up my "inflammation".

i sound like i have all the answers and i feel like i do, actually, after 20 years (at least for me). i'm mainly wondering if other people who have very low DHEA experience any of the symptoms i mentioned, including dry skin.

 

[NitricOxideNutritionDoc]

I took trenbolone 20 years ago that left me with permanent damage to my adrenal glands. I don't require medication like hydrocortisone or cortef but it left me feeling weak ever since I was 22 (I'm now 41). It took me 2 decades to discover that DHEA was an important hormone and that the tren damaged my adrenal cortex (to some degree) which produces cortisol, DHEA and aldosterone. All are low.

Nobody ever tests for DHEA much. all the endos look for is just low T. and while mine is low, even when I was on it for 8 years straight (80-100mg/week with hcg), my "tren damage" never resolved so I came off because testosterone swells up my prostate even if my estrogen is low, it still does it a bit and messes with my sometimes nearly non-existent orgasm intensity (and low at best) that the tren damaged. It also caused abdominal pain that never goes away, strong in the morning. This happened one day when I was 22. All the symptoms showed up. I think it messed with my orgasms a couple days before the abdominal pain set in. Now I just can't digest a lot of food (its the intestines, not the stomach). So I ended up dropping down to really low bodyweight after I stopped TRT. My test is about 200-340ng. Yes I feel like crap if I try to train and my sex drive isn't that high.

I wonder if anyone else has these symptoms from low DHEA and if they were resolved. I bought some Douglas Labs 5mg sublinguals but hesitant to take it.

Just did labs recently and came back at 110 (range is 93 - 415). I also did the dutch test and they only test urine metabolites. It was 61 (range 31 - 1500). My free cortisol is perfect but my metabolites are BELOW the bottom range on that dutch test. So not sure who to believe but I do feel it is sub-par. I would say that the DHEA (the androgen part of the cortex) is more screwed because I took an extreme androgen which is what tren is. That dutch test is purely saliva and urine only. The DHEA-S test I recently did was a serum.

 

[NitricOxideNutritionDoc]

I love DHEA! I take 25 mg orally and 25 mg sublingually every morning.

For those afraid to take DHEA directly, they can try Tribulus - from Bulgaria ONLY - and WITH food at breakfast and dinner - as it can help raise DHEA levels indirectly.

 

[Shawn]

I love DHEA! I take 25 mg orally and 25 mg sublingually every morning.

For those afraid to take DHEA directly, they can try Tribulus - from Bulgaria ONLY - and WITH food at breakfast and dinner - as it can help raise DHEA levels indirectly.

wow interesting on using both. i was going to ask what is the preferred method because i have bottles of both but was going to start with 1.25mg sublingual. i know that sounds ridiculous but im highly sensitive to everything and also barely weigh 120. about trib, i'll never use that again because it is the only thing that caused me to lose a ton of my hair permanently. that's kinda why i'm scared of using DHEA but i know its all DHT and mine is extremely low right now too but if it gets outta hand, i'll know because i'll be sporting wood too constantly and that's when i'll start eating white mushrooms and pumpkin seeds to lower it back down.

 

[of574]

wow interesting on using both. i was going to ask what is the preferred method because i have bottles of both but was going to start with 1.25mg sublingual. i know that sounds ridiculous but im highly sensitive to everything and also barely weigh 120. about trib, i'll never use that again because it is the only thing that caused me to lose a ton of my hair permanently. that's kinda why i'm scared of using DHEA but i know its all DHT and mine is extremely low right now too but if it gets outta hand, i'll know because i'll be sporting wood too constantly and that's when i'll start eating white mushrooms and pumpkin seeds to lower it back down.

Do you remember which brand and dose of tribulus you were taking?

 

[Shawn]

it was 14 years ago in 2010. a brand called Tribest 750, not Tribex. but it was made by MRM which does make Tribex also. That brand is real solid but who knows, i believe it was all trib, it is known to raise DHT incredibly. 2 caps each at 750 = 1500. i felt like i was a pornstar but it just destroyed my hair. never lost hair after that but it looks thinner only because im underweight.

 

[Shawn]

by the way, ever heard of pine pollen? they say its the only natural herb out there that can boost DHEA? i guess anything that boosts DHEA can invariably boost DHT. i recall now. i used like .5mg arimidex eod with the tribulus. so of course the only conversion left = DHT = good bye hair.

 

[Shawn]

i recently tried only 1.25mg of the Douglas sublingual and totally felt drugged up. i had indigestion and some irregular heart beat (maybe the indigestion caused it because that usually does for me). i did feel more calm. does anyone else have these sides?