Lab Work - Can't Get Better It Seems - UPDATE

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psaufan

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Entering the fifth week of this regiment change: the only improvement I see so far is I feel a bit more sharp mentally...still no sex drive...not very motivated...general muscle soreness in back and arms...legs as well...bit of discomfort in the shoulder joints and knee...testicle ache...water gain around my waist.

I recognize the reduction in the test cyp injections was minor, but cutting HCG in half and ceasing the anastrozole seemed like more than minor tweaks. Most who viewed the original posting were of the opinions that the blood work looked good, so I didn't repost here. This post is mainly about the changes since the change in protocol.

Thoughts and insight from other's experiences are always welcome!

ORIGINAL POST: I am going to post my most recent lab work and an bit of history of where I am and how I feel. I was with Low T Nation for three years before switching to Defy Medical summer of 2019.

When I left Low-T. this was my regiment: .35ml test cyp twice a week IM...HCG 200iu twice a week...Ipamorelin CJC 1295 daily, at night...felt kinda blah and was not impressed with the care I was receiving.

Upon moving to Defy, my regiment changed to: .35ml test cyp twice a week subq...HCG 250iu twice a week...discontinued Ipamoreline CJC 1295...started Anastrozole .125 twice a week...started T3/T4 each morning.

All was going well physically and mentally until three months ago. I felt like I hit a wall...hard to concentrate...PMSing...hard to focus...no sex drive...hard to stay interested in things, etc. I called Defy and I had a return call to speak with a PA, though I cannot recall her name. She changed my protocol as follows:

Increase test cyp slightly by injecting .25ml three times a week rather than .35ml twice a week...stay subq...increase HCG from 200iu to 500iu twice a week...start injecting B-12 twice a week...one ml each time...everything else stays the same. The PA stated that increasing the HCG might help with the loss of sex drive?

So, now jump forward to now. I had my consult a couple of back with a lady by the name of Michelle (?) and I explained that my symptoms had not really improved since the changes mentioned in the paragraph prior to this consult, which was 90 days prior to the blood work being done.

So, my protocol has now been changed to the following: decrease test cyp from .25ml three times a week to .20ml three times a week...reduce HCG from 500iu twice a week to 250iu twice a week...discontinue the anastrozole...continue with T3/T4 and B-12.

My estradiol had decreased fro 37.1 to 31.3, so I'm uncertain as to why I am going to stop taking it, but I have to assume they have a reason.

Attached is my most recent blood work, The last set of changes I wrote about occurred after the results if this lab work was obtained. You will see - written in red - the levels of those items when I had blood work drawn earlier in 2020. I thought it might be helpful for y'all to see some of the changes.

I mentioned to Michelle that i cannot say I feel any better than I did when I stopped using pellets. I'm paying more money, sticking myself seven times a week and introducing a lot of substances into my body and just don't feel good. I felt great for six months when I started with Defy and I'm looking to get back there. In her opinion, my blood work 'looks great' and I should be feeling great.

Do y'all mind taking a look at the attached? Does anything jump out that might give a clue as to what is going on? Any tips, suggestions, etc would be much appreciated!
 
Defy Medical TRT clinic doctor
I can only add that the limbo period after a protocol change shouldn’t be underestimated in terms of severity as well as duration. I only START feeling a faint breeze of stability after 6 weeks. It takes me a full 3 months+ to fully determine the outcome of a protocol change. That’s also why I wouldn’t even bother running labs after only 6 weeks in.
 
I can only add that the limbo period after a protocol change shouldn’t be underestimated in terms of severity as well as duration. I only START feeling a faint breeze of stability after 6 weeks. It takes me a full 3 months+ to fully determine the outcome of a protocol change. That’s also why I wouldn’t even bother running labs after only 6 weeks in.


Well said.

Although it would still be beneficial to have blood work done once levels stabilize to see where such protocol (dose T/injection frequency) has ones trough TT/FT/e2 levels let alone any impact it may have on RBCs/hemoglobin/hematocrit (if dose T was increased).
 
Entering the fifth week of this regiment change: the only improvement I see so far is I feel a bit more sharp mentally...still no sex drive...not very motivated...general muscle soreness in back and arms...legs as well...bit of discomfort in the shoulder joints and knee...testicle ache...water gain around my waist.

I recognize the reduction in the test cyp injections was minor, but cutting HCG in half and ceasing the anastrozole seemed like more than minor tweaks. Most who viewed the original posting were of the opinions that the blood work looked good, so I didn't repost here. This post is mainly about the changes since the change in protocol.

Thoughts and insight from other's experiences are always welcome!

ORIGINAL POST: I am going to post my most recent lab work and an bit of history of where I am and how I feel. I was with Low T Nation for three years before switching to Defy Medical summer of 2019.

When I left Low-T. this was my regiment: .35ml test cyp twice a week IM...HCG 200iu twice a week...Ipamorelin CJC 1295 daily, at night...felt kinda blah and was not impressed with the care I was receiving.

Upon moving to Defy, my regiment changed to: .35ml test cyp twice a week subq...HCG 250iu twice a week...discontinued Ipamoreline CJC 1295...started Anastrozole .125 twice a week...started T3/T4 each morning.

All was going well physically and mentally until three months ago. I felt like I hit a wall...hard to concentrate...PMSing...hard to focus...no sex drive...hard to stay interested in things, etc. I called Defy and I had a return call to speak with a PA, though I cannot recall her name. She changed my protocol as follows:

Increase test cyp slightly by injecting .25ml three times a week rather than .35ml twice a week...stay subq...increase HCG from 200iu to 500iu twice a week...start injecting B-12 twice a week...one ml each time...everything else stays the same. The PA stated that increasing the HCG might help with the loss of sex drive?

So, now jump forward to now. I had my consult a couple of back with a lady by the name of Michelle (?) and I explained that my symptoms had not really improved since the changes mentioned in the paragraph prior to this consult, which was 90 days prior to the blood work being done.

So, my protocol has now been changed to the following: decrease test cyp from .25ml three times a week to .20ml three times a week...reduce HCG from 500iu twice a week to 250iu twice a week...discontinue the anastrozole...continue with T3/T4 and B-12.

My estradiol had decreased fro 37.1 to 31.3, so I'm uncertain as to why I am going to stop taking it, but I have to assume they have a reason.

Attached is my most recent blood work, The last set of changes I wrote about occurred after the results if this lab work was obtained. You will see - written in red - the levels of those items when I had blood work drawn earlier in 2020. I thought it might be helpful for y'all to see some of the changes.

I mentioned to Michelle that i cannot say I feel any better than I did when I stopped using pellets. I'm paying more money, sticking myself seven times a week and introducing a lot of substances into my body and just don't feel good. I felt great for six months when I started with Defy and I'm looking to get back there. In her opinion, my blood work 'looks great' and I should be feeling great.

Do y'all mind taking a look at the attached? Does anything jump out that might give a clue as to what is going on? Any tips, suggestions, etc would be much appreciated!

5 weeks in what are you expecting.

As you know anytime protocol is tweaked (dose T/injection frequency) hormones will be in FLUX leading up until blood levels stabilize and even then once things smooth out it will take 2-3 months for the body to adapt to those new levels and this is the critical time period when one should gauge how they truly feel overall on such protocol.

If you end up changing more than one thing at a time than the road can be very bumpy.

The first 6 weeks of a protocol change is misleading, to say the least!
 
5 weeks in what are you expecting.

As you know anytime protocol is tweaked (dose T/injection frequency) hormones will be in FLUX leading up until blood levels stabilize and even then once things smooth out it will take 2-3 months for the body to adapt to those new levels and this is the critical time period when one should gauge how they truly feel overall on such protocol.

If you end up changing more than one thing at a time than the road can be very bumpy.

The first 6 weeks of a protocol change is misleading, to say the least!

I wasn't sure what to be expecting, so I thought to reach out and gauge other's experiences against my own. I appreciate the responses and it appears I need to be patient while my body adapts to the new regiment.

"If you end up changing more than one thing at a time than the road can be very bumpy." Their cutting my HCG dosage in half and ceasing arimidex seemed like like a lot. Just 90 days before a PA at the same office had doubled my HCG dosage stating it would help with sex drive and the post-bloodwork PA stated that would not help with that and returned it to previous levels. Conflicting information. And, now my body is o this see-saw ride with HCG.

I'll give it another six weeks and see how I feel then. Thanks for the replies and insight.
 
Well said.

Although it would still be beneficial to have blood work done once levels stabilize to see where such protocol (dose T/injection frequency) has ones trough TT/FT/e2 levels let alone any impact it may have on RBCs/hemoglobin/hematocrit (if dose T was increased).
Agreed. Man if I could afford it I’d have labs done monthly or every time I experience any weird symptoms haha! I had just tweaked my own protocol and are now in the infamous second week of readjustment. The first is usually still fine if not downright good. Second one sucks. Third also and from the fourth on it’s good days & bad days until after week 6 when good days tend to slowly start domineering.
 
Another update: I went ahead and had a consult with a PA on Friday. Prior to the call, she consulted with one of the Doctors about my last labs and reviewed the recent protocol change...here is what they recommended, with everything else remaining as-is.

As MadMan said...give it a bit more time. However, they said some changes are needed:

(1) increase HCG slightly from 250iu to 300iu to help with the testicle ache.
(2) start back taking the anastrozole...the notes said I wasn't supposed to stop, so I guess I misunderstood previous instructions. They suggest three time a week (.125) for two weeks and then cut back to twice a week.
(3) they are recommending I start Ipamorelin-CJC1295...300 mcg daily one hour before bedtime.

That was a good call and I'm excited about the changes.

Anyone have luck with Ipamorelin-CJC1295?
 
Beyond Testosterone Book by Nelson Vergel
Sorry I might have missed it but why are you taking HCG again?

I moved from pellets to injections right at five years ago. I was initially with Low T Nation and they started me on test cyp and HCG from the get-go. I moved from Low T Nation to Defy a little over a year ago and Defy continued the test cyp, HCG and added B12, anastrozole, DHEA and a thyroid medication.

I was told it could help with low energy, libido, testicular atrophy and ache. I've always just trusted the Doctor's when they have recommended I keep taking it.

Do a lot of people on here not take HCG along with their test cyp?
 
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