Before I launch into my (long) post, I would first like to thank the members of this forum for being so generous in sharing their knowledge. I have found the first hand experience of people on this forum to be lightyears ahead of the the standard TRT protocol endorsed by the medical establishment.
MICRODOSING TESTOSTERONE
Now for a question that has piqued my interest ever since I first started learning about TRT. There have been numerous articles over the past several years reporting on athletes (especially Olympians) who are using “microdoses” of testosterone to gain a competitive edge without triggering positive tests. Here is a good example:
Athlete Lauryn Williams reveals how she was advised to cheat 21st century style... microdosing is seen as golden ticket for dopers wanting to trick the testers | Daily Mail Online
My question is, how are these athletes able to use exogenous testsoterone - even at microdose levels - without shutting down their body’s natural production of testosterone for a sustained period of time?
Note that these articles do not explicitly state that the athletes’ natural testosterone production continued without interruption. I am assuming this is the case because such athletes would not knowingly do anything that would suppress their natural T production for a sustained period of time since that would be counterproductive - i.e., it would severely hamper their ability to maximize training and would ultimately hurt their performance.
TOP-OFF CONCEPT
In the article above, this quote from Victor Conte of BALCO-Barry-Bonds notoriety caught my eye because he reinforces idea that it is possible to supplement or “top-off” your natural production without shutting it down.
“If you inject 7 milligrammes of testosterone a day, now you have the 7mg your body is releasing plus the 7mg you’re injecting,” he said. “So now you’ve doubled it and you have 14mg of testosterone circulating for 24 hours a day and you’re flying under the radar (of the testers). I’ve heard hundreds of athletes are doing this.”
NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN SYNTHETIC VERSUS NATURAL
The top-off concept seems to contradict my rather limited knowledge about how the body perceives exogenous testosterone. I always thought that giving the body any amount of synthetic testosterone - regardless of dosage - tells the pituitary gland to shut down natural production.
However, my earlier assumption appears incorrect because the body supposedly cannot distinguish between exogenous testosterone (synthetic) versus endogenous (internally produced) testosterone.
To quote another: “There is no difference between synthetic testosterone and naturally produced testosterone - they're one and the same chemical. Same atoms, in the same configuration, forming the exact same molecule, with identical chemcial properties. At least at the atomic level. Once you mix natural and synthetic testosterone, you can't separate them again, any more than you could separate Evian from Poland Springs bottled water after they'd been mixed.”
This is apparently why doping tests must rely on testosterone/epitestosterone ratio instead of trying to detect synthetic T.
NATURALLY OCCURRING FLUCTUATIONS
If the body cannot distinguish between synthetic versus natural testosterone, how is a small increase due to a synthetic microdose any different from a naturally occurring increase within the body?
As I learned on this forum, the level of internally produced testosterone is constantly fluctuating. There is no natural 24hr steady state. Rather, there are daily fluctuations (higher in the morning) and seasonal fluctuations (higher in the summer). On top of that, there are temporary spikes following resistance training.
BODY’S TOLERANCE FOR TESTOSTERONE INCREASES
My rudimentary understanding is that the body regulates natural testosterone production like a thermostat using a negative feedback loop. Here is a a classic thermostat analogy for the endocrine system:
“Endocrine glands react to hormonal changes in the blood in much the same way that a thermostat reacts to temperature changes. The glands, which do not constantly secrete hormones, rely on the presence or absence of hormones in the blood to turn their secretions on and off. If there is not enough hormone circulating in the blood, the endocrine glands make more, increasing blood hormone levels. If there is too much hormone, the glands stop producing it, leading to lower blood hormone levels.“
Here is the negative feedback loop in action at it relates specifically to testosterone production and supression:
“As blood levels of testosterone increase, this feeds back to suppress the production of gonadotrophin-releasing hormone from the hypothalamus which, in turn, suppresses production of luteinising hormone by the pituitary gland. Levels of testosterone begin to fall as a result, so negative feedback decreases and the hypothalamus resumes secretion of gonadotrophin-releasing hormone.”
Like a thermostat, does the body have a “set point” for testosterone that triggers the on/off switch for natural production? If this is correct, it would imply that the body has a certain pre-defined level of tolerance for testosterone increases before suppressing LH in the pituitary gland.
For example, assume your body’s thermostat-like set point for total testosterone is 600 and your current level is 400. This means that your body could tolerate an additional 200 of testosterone before supressing natural production.
Am I looking at this correctly? If so, does your set point lower with age?
MAXIMUM MICRODOSE, FREQUENCY & TYPE
Back to the topic of microdoses. If the endorcine system can tolerate a certain level of increased testestorone before supressing natural production, the question then becomes, what is the maximum microdose that the body will tolerate? Again, the fact that the microdose is synthetic/exogenous should not matter because the body cannot distinguish it from internally produced T.
The size of the microdose is probably only one factor though. What effect would the frequency have on microdosing? Consider Victor Conte’s example above of 7mg exogenous + 7mg natural. Presumably you could not do this every day because your TT would slowly build up and breach the body’s maximum set point, triggering suppression of natural T, correct?
In turn, maximum frequency would also seem to depend on the type of synthetic testoerone. Would microdosing only work with transdermal application like scrotal cream, which quickly dissipates? Or could it still work with cypionate so long as you spaced out the frequency of injections?
RELEVANCE TO TRT
You may be wondering what microdosing has to do with TRT. One thought is that micodosing could be alternative to TRT for those of us who have quit TRT due to inability to manage a particular side effect that may have been caused by the testes going into hibernation mode.
Maybe microdosing could enable us to benefit from the upside of exogenous testosterone (e.g., muscle building, energy, focus, etc.) without totally shutting down natural T production? Obviously the upside to this “top-off” approach would be limited compared to full blown T replacement, but something is better than nothing!
SUMMARY OF QUESTIONS
Feel free to poke holes in my layperson logic (or lack thereof). Here is summary of the questions raised:
MICRODOSING TESTOSTERONE
Now for a question that has piqued my interest ever since I first started learning about TRT. There have been numerous articles over the past several years reporting on athletes (especially Olympians) who are using “microdoses” of testosterone to gain a competitive edge without triggering positive tests. Here is a good example:
Athlete Lauryn Williams reveals how she was advised to cheat 21st century style... microdosing is seen as golden ticket for dopers wanting to trick the testers | Daily Mail Online
My question is, how are these athletes able to use exogenous testsoterone - even at microdose levels - without shutting down their body’s natural production of testosterone for a sustained period of time?
Note that these articles do not explicitly state that the athletes’ natural testosterone production continued without interruption. I am assuming this is the case because such athletes would not knowingly do anything that would suppress their natural T production for a sustained period of time since that would be counterproductive - i.e., it would severely hamper their ability to maximize training and would ultimately hurt their performance.
TOP-OFF CONCEPT
In the article above, this quote from Victor Conte of BALCO-Barry-Bonds notoriety caught my eye because he reinforces idea that it is possible to supplement or “top-off” your natural production without shutting it down.
“If you inject 7 milligrammes of testosterone a day, now you have the 7mg your body is releasing plus the 7mg you’re injecting,” he said. “So now you’ve doubled it and you have 14mg of testosterone circulating for 24 hours a day and you’re flying under the radar (of the testers). I’ve heard hundreds of athletes are doing this.”
NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN SYNTHETIC VERSUS NATURAL
The top-off concept seems to contradict my rather limited knowledge about how the body perceives exogenous testosterone. I always thought that giving the body any amount of synthetic testosterone - regardless of dosage - tells the pituitary gland to shut down natural production.
However, my earlier assumption appears incorrect because the body supposedly cannot distinguish between exogenous testosterone (synthetic) versus endogenous (internally produced) testosterone.
To quote another: “There is no difference between synthetic testosterone and naturally produced testosterone - they're one and the same chemical. Same atoms, in the same configuration, forming the exact same molecule, with identical chemcial properties. At least at the atomic level. Once you mix natural and synthetic testosterone, you can't separate them again, any more than you could separate Evian from Poland Springs bottled water after they'd been mixed.”
This is apparently why doping tests must rely on testosterone/epitestosterone ratio instead of trying to detect synthetic T.
NATURALLY OCCURRING FLUCTUATIONS
If the body cannot distinguish between synthetic versus natural testosterone, how is a small increase due to a synthetic microdose any different from a naturally occurring increase within the body?
As I learned on this forum, the level of internally produced testosterone is constantly fluctuating. There is no natural 24hr steady state. Rather, there are daily fluctuations (higher in the morning) and seasonal fluctuations (higher in the summer). On top of that, there are temporary spikes following resistance training.
BODY’S TOLERANCE FOR TESTOSTERONE INCREASES
My rudimentary understanding is that the body regulates natural testosterone production like a thermostat using a negative feedback loop. Here is a a classic thermostat analogy for the endocrine system:
“Endocrine glands react to hormonal changes in the blood in much the same way that a thermostat reacts to temperature changes. The glands, which do not constantly secrete hormones, rely on the presence or absence of hormones in the blood to turn their secretions on and off. If there is not enough hormone circulating in the blood, the endocrine glands make more, increasing blood hormone levels. If there is too much hormone, the glands stop producing it, leading to lower blood hormone levels.“
Here is the negative feedback loop in action at it relates specifically to testosterone production and supression:
“As blood levels of testosterone increase, this feeds back to suppress the production of gonadotrophin-releasing hormone from the hypothalamus which, in turn, suppresses production of luteinising hormone by the pituitary gland. Levels of testosterone begin to fall as a result, so negative feedback decreases and the hypothalamus resumes secretion of gonadotrophin-releasing hormone.”
Like a thermostat, does the body have a “set point” for testosterone that triggers the on/off switch for natural production? If this is correct, it would imply that the body has a certain pre-defined level of tolerance for testosterone increases before suppressing LH in the pituitary gland.
For example, assume your body’s thermostat-like set point for total testosterone is 600 and your current level is 400. This means that your body could tolerate an additional 200 of testosterone before supressing natural production.
Am I looking at this correctly? If so, does your set point lower with age?
MAXIMUM MICRODOSE, FREQUENCY & TYPE
Back to the topic of microdoses. If the endorcine system can tolerate a certain level of increased testestorone before supressing natural production, the question then becomes, what is the maximum microdose that the body will tolerate? Again, the fact that the microdose is synthetic/exogenous should not matter because the body cannot distinguish it from internally produced T.
The size of the microdose is probably only one factor though. What effect would the frequency have on microdosing? Consider Victor Conte’s example above of 7mg exogenous + 7mg natural. Presumably you could not do this every day because your TT would slowly build up and breach the body’s maximum set point, triggering suppression of natural T, correct?
In turn, maximum frequency would also seem to depend on the type of synthetic testoerone. Would microdosing only work with transdermal application like scrotal cream, which quickly dissipates? Or could it still work with cypionate so long as you spaced out the frequency of injections?
RELEVANCE TO TRT
You may be wondering what microdosing has to do with TRT. One thought is that micodosing could be alternative to TRT for those of us who have quit TRT due to inability to manage a particular side effect that may have been caused by the testes going into hibernation mode.
Maybe microdosing could enable us to benefit from the upside of exogenous testosterone (e.g., muscle building, energy, focus, etc.) without totally shutting down natural T production? Obviously the upside to this “top-off” approach would be limited compared to full blown T replacement, but something is better than nothing!
SUMMARY OF QUESTIONS
Feel free to poke holes in my layperson logic (or lack thereof). Here is summary of the questions raised:
- How are these athletes able to use exogenous testsoterone - even at microdose levels - without shutting down their body’s natural production of testosterone for a sustained period of time?
- Can your body distinguish between a small testosterone increase due to an exogenous microdose versus a naturally occurring increase (e.g., morning spike)?
- Like a thermostat, does the body have a “set point” for testosterone that triggers the on/off switch for natural production, which implies a pre-defined level of tolerance for increases? If yes, does your set point lower with age?
- What is the maximum microdose that the body will tolerate before before suppressing GnRH, thereby shutting down internal T production?
- How would frequency of the microdoses impact suppression of natural T? (E.g., daily, EOD, etc.?)
- Would microdosing only work with transdermal application like scrotal cream, which quickly dissipates in the body? (Versus longer lasting cypionate)
- Do you think there is any benefit to microdosing T as alternative to TRT? - i.e., supplementing versus replacing internally produced testosterone?
