High Free T, High e2, High H&H - Opinions Welcome

[Gianluca]

for this BW I'm on 0,35ml of cypionate M/F/W, 0,07 MG of AI M/W/F HCG 20IU 5 x week, Caber 1,25mg M/T, blood was taken on Monday am before injections, H&H on the high side for a mild sleep apnea, I'm not concerned about it

Do you guys think free T is too high? Pharmacy is sending a 0,125MG Anastazole and I'm thinking to try it 3 times a week while waiting for follow up in a month with Doc, I may as well retake blood to see E2 levels again.

Any critics would be appreciated

 

[Vettester Chris]

As suspected, your SHBG is sitting low, at 12 nmol/L, which is the culprit for your high Free Test (3.3%). Mine is fairly similar. Also, with me, my E2 would be problematic if I was splitting up 200mg of cypionate 3x per week. It's you and your physician's call, but my take on this is to find a protocol that will mimic the 'natural balance'.

If it were me, I'd just do that 3.5ml at 2x per week, which is close to what I do, and it doesn't require any AI. I like your idea of the small dosage of AI for a short period of time. If you adjust your protocol, you "might" be able to keep your E2 at a continuous, sustainable level ... I was a trial and error period for me about 7 to 8 years ago to get that dialed in.

I'd really like to see what your thyroid is doing? Your AM cortisol is one marker of concern, only being at 41% of reference range, plus your iron serum is on the low end, not to mention ferritin is really on the low end; all being vitally important for thyroid hormone to be productive. Needing Free T3, Free T4, TSH, Reverse T3 and antibodies TPO and TgAb. You will need that Reverse T3 to compare against Free T3, as pooling could be a strong possibility.

 

[Gianluca]

thank you for your response, I may eventually discuss with Doc to maybe lower the dose, just find hard to measure anything btw 0.35 and 0.3ml, fearing on 0,3ml 3 x week being not enough, how is your Free T compared to TT? my concern is having an above 'normal' range FT would cause any issue? maybe I would feel better below that but would crash TT....

low SHBG guy need more injections, although when I switched from two to 3 x week I believe I did not noticed any differences, the peak and valley I was getting was mostly from 3 x week of HCG

I have an extensive BW for adrenal and Thyroid but it was done back in October, I believe, and everything was ok beside cortisol

funny about Iron, as I think using RX digestive enzyme called Creon caused to diminish the absorption of Iron, I just started using Vit C 1000mg once or twice a day to help with that

As suspected, your SHBG is sitting low, at 12 nmol/L, which is the culprit for your high Free Test (3.3%). Mine is fairly similar. Also, with me, my E2 would be problematic if I was splitting up 200mg of cypionate 3x per week. It's you and your physician's call, but my take on this is to find a protocol that will mimic the 'natural balance'.

If it were me, I'd just do that 3.5ml at 2x per week, which is close to what I do, and it doesn't require any AI. I like your idea of the small dosage of AI for a short period of time. If you adjust your protocol, you "might" be able to keep your E2 at a continuous, sustainable level ... I was a trial and error period for me about 7 to 8 years ago to get that dialed in.

I'd really like to see what your thyroid is doing? Your AM cortisol is one marker of concern, only being at 41% of reference range, plus your iron serum is on the low end, not to mention ferritin is really on the low end; all being vitally important for thyroid hormone to be productive. Needing Free T3, Free T4, TSH, Reverse T3 and antibodies TPO and TgAb. You will need that Reverse T3 to compare against Free T3, as pooling could be a strong possibility.

 

[Vettester Chris]

thank you for your response, I may eventually discuss with Doc to maybe lower the dose, just find hard to measure anything btw 0.35 and 0.3ml, fearing on 0,3ml 3 x week being not enough, how is your Free T compared to TT? my concern is having an above 'normal' range FT would cause any issue? maybe I would feel better below that but would crash TT....

low SHBG guy need more injections, although when I switched from two to 3 x week I believe I did not noticed any differences, the peak and valley I was getting was mostly from 3 x week of HCG

I have an extensive BW for adrenal and Thyroid but it was done back in October, I believe, and everything was ok beside cortisol

funny about Iron, as I think using RX digestive enzyme called Creon caused to diminish the absorption of Iron, I just started using Vit C 1000mg once or twice a day to help with that

Free T is relative to Total Test Serum, factored with SHGB. Yours is 3.3%, mine is about the same ... At 700ng/dl my free test is around the 21 mark, yours is currently at 30.3 if you used the ng/dl measurement scale. If your total test went down to 650, your free test would be 650 x 3.3% = 21.5 ng/dl. Just my opinion, but 16ng/dl to 24ng/dl is a good place to aim.

Yeah, I know what you're saying with the "inject more frequently" thing with low SHBG, as my SHBG has been down to 8 at times. For me, 2 x per week works just peachy! I also inject HCG on two (2) of the other days, it works great for me. I don't notice any difference with doing 3x. Again, balance is where I'm aiming. If you did 3.5ml x 2 per week, you might get a better handle on the E2, and you might notice your overall well being is also improved because of it (?). Free & bio test is what gets to the cells, just saying ... Plus, here's the great part, you can always push it back to where it was before if you don't like, but I'm betting you might feel just fine at 700ng/dl or so with that 3.3% free test of yours!

On the thyroid, I think I've heard it a thousand times here that "Labs looked fine". With your cortisol and ferritin where it's at, and sub optimal iron serum, it is scientifically impossible for T3 to function properly at the cellular level, or call it the distribution thereof at the cellular level. It's much, much different than how testosterone takes its metabolism journey. Post it up when you can, I'll give you my .02 for what it's worth ... Thanks

 

[Vince]

My number one question is, how do you feel. Are you having any symptoms from the high estradiol levels. Do you plan on donating blood soon? How long have you been on trt.

 

[Gianluca]

Hi Vince, I have been on TRT for a bit over two years now, I do have some water retention but doc thinks it comes from my trouble with the adrenals, since when my E2 was about 20 I still had WR, I'm not planning to donate blood ever again unless I don't have extra ferritin, I lost some libido probably for an increase in E2, and over all I feel so so due to my adrenal fatigue issue

My number one question is, how do you feel. Are you having any symptoms from the high estradiol levels. Do you plan on donating blood soon? How long have you been on trt.

 

[Gianluca]

the second full data below is from October 2016 LabCorp ranges, the most recent one is from Quest which I don't understand if is just TSH or something related to T4 as well, here what it says :

TSH W/REFL FREE T 4
TSH 1.09 0.40 - 4.50 MIU/L

Labcorp (october2016)

Thyroxine (T4) Free, Direct, S T4,Free(Direct) 1.22 ng/dL 0.82 - 1.77 01

DHEA-Sulfate 430.3 ug/dL 138.5 - 475.2 01

TSH 1.410 uIU/mL 0.450 - 4.500 01


Ferritin, Serum 39 ng/mL 30 - 400 01

Triiodothyronine,Free,Serum 3.3 pg/mL 2.0 - 4.4 01

Free T is relative to Total Test Serum, factored with SHGB. Yours is 3.3%, mine is about the same ... At 700ng/dl my free test is around the 21 mark, yours is currently at 30.3 if you used the ng/dl measurement scale. If your total test went down to 650, your free test would be 650 x 3.3% = 21.5 ng/dl. Just my opinion, but 16ng/dl to 24ng/dl is a good place to aim.

Yeah, I know what you're saying with the "inject more frequently" thing with low SHBG, as my SHBG has been down to 8 at times. For me, 2 x per week works just peachy! I also inject HCG on two (2) of the other days, it works great for me. I don't notice any difference with doing 3x. Again, balance is where I'm aiming. If you did 3.5ml x 2 per week, you might get a better handle on the E2, and you might notice your overall well being is also improved because of it (?). Free & bio test is what gets to the cells, just saying ... Plus, here's the great part, you can always push it back to where it was before if you don't like, but I'm betting you might feel just fine at 700ng/dl or so with that 3.3% free test of yours!

On the thyroid, I think I've heard it a thousand times here that "Labs looked fine". With your cortisol and ferritin where it's at, and sub optimal iron serum, it is scientifically impossible for T3 to function properly at the cellular level, or call it the distribution thereof at the cellular level. It's much, much different than how testosterone takes its metabolism journey. Post it up when you can, I'll give you my .02 for what it's worth ... Thanks