Hematocrit on gel vs injections

[transetpmedia]

After having issues with injection absorption, I recently switched to testogel and the results have been surprisingly good. Using the technique of showering, exfoliating and applying lotion, it feels like my levels have skyrocketed and stay elevated well into the next day. I am pretty sure that I am actually able to tolerate a higher dose because of DHT lowering estrogen as I can be a bit of an aromatizer. It's been 5 days since I stopped sustanon daily injections, so whilst there will still be a fair amount of it in my system (although I estimated most of it will have cleared) I will wait a bit before doing a blood test.

I have read before that testosterone gel doesn't increase hematocrit as much as injections. On injections I had borderling high hematocrit, around 54 although this drops to more around 50 if I hydrate well before test. I am yet to test, but I am certain my levels (both testosterone and DHT) will be higher on gel. Does the difference between test gel and injections hematocrit levels just come down to the amount that is absorbed, or is there possibly something about gel which prevents it rising as much?

 

[madman]

After having issues with injection absorption, I recently switched to testogel and the results have been surprisingly good. Using the technique of showering, exfoliating and applying lotion, it feels like my levels have skyrocketed and stay elevated well into the next day. I am pretty sure that I am actually able to tolerate a higher dose because of DHT lowering estrogen as I can be a bit of an aromatizer. It's been 5 days since I stopped sustanon daily injections, so whilst there will still be a fair amount of it in my system (although I estimated most of it will have cleared) I will wait a bit before doing a blood test.

I have read before that testosterone gel doesn't increase hematocrit as much as injections. On injections I had borderling high hematocrit, around 54 although this drops to more around 50 if I hydrate well before test. I am yet to test, but I am certain my levels (both testosterone and DHT) will be higher on gel. Does the difference between test gel and injections hematocrit levels just come down to the amount that is absorbed, or is there possibly something about gel which prevents it rising as much?

This is key!


*Injectable T has been shown to have a greater impact on increasing HCT compared to transdermal T.

3–18% with transdermal administration and up to 44% with injection.

In most cases when using injectable T high supra-physiological peaks post-injection and overall T levels (running too high TT/FT level) will have a big impact on increasing HCT.

Although injectables have been shown to have a greater impact on HCT you can see even when using a transdermal formulation that maintains stable serum concentrations that the impact it has on HCT is DEPENDANT ON THE DOSE AND SERUM LEVEL OF T.

Using higher doses of transdermal T and achieving higher TT/FT levels will have a great impact on HCT levels.

Testosterone Therapy and Erythrocytosis - the most common dose-limiting effect of testosterone therapy

https://www.thebloodproject.com/cases-archive/testosterone-therapy-and-erythrocytosis-2/ Introduction Androgens play a crucial role in the development and maintenance of: Male reproductive and sexual functions Body composition Erythropoiesis Muscle and bone health Cognitive function...

www.excelmale.com

Regarding those struggling with high hematocrit here is my reply from another thread:

As you can see your RBCs, hemoglobin and hematocrit is elevated which is a common side-effect when using exogenous T, especially when running higher FT levels let alone peak--->trough levels can have a significant impact.

When using exogenous T RBCs, hemoglobin and hematocrit will increase within the 1st month and can take anywhere from 6-12 months to reach peak levels.

T formulation, the dose of T, PKs, genetics (polymorphism of the AR), age all play a role in the impact a trt protocol will have on blood markers (RBCs/hemoglobin/hematocrit).

Other factors such as sleep apnea, smoking, asthma, COPD can have a negative impact on hematocrit.

Injectable T has been shown to have a greater impact on increasing HCT compared to transdermal T.

3–18% with transdermal administration and up to 44% with injection.

In most cases when using injectable T high supra-physiological peaks post-injection and overall T levels (running too high TT/FT level) will have a big impact on increasing HCT.

Manipulating injection frequency by injecting more frequently using lower doses of T resulting in minimizing the peak--->trough and maintaining more stable levels may lessen the impact on HCT but it is not a given.

As again running very high TT/FT levels steady-state will have a stronger impact on driving up HCT.

Although injectables have been shown to have a greater impact on HCT you can see even when using a transdermal formulation that maintains stable serum concentrations that the impact it has on HCT is DEPENDANT ON THE DOSE AND SERUM LEVEL OF T.

Using higher doses of transdermal T and achieving higher TT/FT levels will have a great impact on HCT levels.

How high an FT level you are running is critical.

It is a given that most men on trt struggling with elevated RBCs/hemoglobin/hematocrit are running too high an FT level.

Sure some men are more sensitive than others as they may still struggle with elevated blood markers when running lower T levels but it is far from common and many may already have an underlying health issue contributing to such.

If you are struggling with such blood markers then in most cases finding the lowest FT level you can run while still maintaining the beneficial effects may very well be the solution.

Easier said than done as many men on trt tend to do better running higher-end FT levels within reason.

Mind you some are lucky and never have an issue or levels tend to stabilize over time.

Others will continue to struggle until the cows come home.

 

[Melody68]

Madman is the absolute authority on this. However I have some limited experience since I started with the gel, stayed on it for about 4 months and then switched to enanthate injections. The gel didn't absorb properly with me; the injections did.

It may be that HCT may not rise as much on gel for the simple reason that T doesn't rise as much on gel. I suspect that if you match results with T that is injected daily, then hematocrit wouldn't be significantly different with either gel or injection.

Second, I would think that it's unlikely that anyone would feel a significant difference after only 5 days of using gel. You could be excited and very positive about making the change and that is coloring your experience. I'm glad you feel well thus far, but I'd wait at least 60 days before drawing conclusions.

 

[mooseman109]

I am 10 years into this journey. I have always been a RBC making machine.
My HCT was almost 50 before TRT.
I started on Androgel, way too expensive at the time. Bumped to test C injections 200 mg every 2 weeks. I was dumb like alot of us were in the beginning. I played around with multiple dosing options. Eventually settling on .08 mg daily. No significant difference in HCT. About 3 years ago I switched to cream from Empower pharmacy, fir the very reason OP mentioned. Unfortunately the results are pretty much the same, maybe a small difference but not enough that I don’t donate every 10-12 weeks. Still then my HCT is never under 52, typically closer to 54.
So for me, the cream did not lower HCT, but the response from the cream in all other areas has been great.

 

[NeverSayNeverAgain]

@madman

You have numbers you are comfortable with on this? I know you make a big deal with guys on injections having 1000+ trough levels. But 1000 is my peak on cream 500 about midday and 200 24hrs later. My regular doc still thinks that is still too high, I donate 58 days mainly because I have to supplement iron to keep ferritin up.