Couple of questions about gel and how it compares to injections in regards to DHT and muscle gain

[transetpmedia]

I am going to try testogel to see if it has less side effects in place of cypionate which causes me a bounding pulse. I was wondering, provided I can absorb the gel about a couple of things:

1. Does gel (not applied to scrotum) increase DHT proportionately more than injections? I saw in a thread that spreading the gel over as much of a surface area of skin as possible led to higher DHT levels vs a smaller area. Given there is this extra element of 5 alpha reductase being present in the absorption process, I am wondering if DHT will be higher than with cypionate.

2. Would gels that result in similar levels to injections (injection trough measurement vs 2-4 hours after gel is applied), lead to less muscle gain? I presume the answer to this question depends on the half life of gel. From what I understand esters like cypionate lead to elevated levels 100% of time (rather than fluctuations) which means catabolic processes are overridden to an extent leading to muscle gain. If gels have a peak and trough before next application, I would presume there is less muscle gain, unless the half life isn't as short as some describe it.

 

[Keepfit1]

Gel is defo higher DHT, my experience is injections give bigger muscle , Gel tends to go up and down but maybe creams give less fluctuation

 

[transetpmedia]

Gel is defo higher DHT, my experience is injections give bigger muscle , Gel tends to go up and down but maybe creams give less fluctuation

Does the peak and trough with gel feel bad? And in regards to the muscle are we talking injections being twice as effective or more of a 10-20% boost?

 

[Cooper]

for me injections added more muscle however gels leaned me out more (possibly because of higher DHt?) which I actually preferred.

 

[transetpmedia]

for me injections added more muscle however gels leaned me out more (possibly because of higher DHt?) which I actually preferred.

Is the muscle difference large, or just a little extra? Do you think looking leaner was related to water retention?

 

[Keepfit1]

Does the peak and trough with gel feel bad? And in regards to the muscle are we talking injections being twice as effective or more of a 10-20% boost?

I never noticed the troughs but saw them on blood tests, when I say peak and trough the trough was maybe down 30% on the peak. re your second part question, its hard to say, and we are all different.

 

[Fortunate]

Is the muscle difference large, or just a little extra? Do you think looking leaner was related to water retention?

Check out the lifting dermatologist on YouTube.

 

[NeverSayNeverAgain]

The up and down of gels were very noticable to me some people try to get around it by dosing two pumps in the morning one in the early afternoon and then one early or late evening depending if they have to be somewhere or not.

Testogel I believe is the packets only which sucked for me and didn't give me anything close to good numbers even at the max two packet dose in the early AM so I'm wishing you good results.

If you are a good absorber you will notice it a few minutes after applying up to four hours after of which it should be a nice long trough but no crashing. If you will really don't feel any better at all you will need two packets, if you feel fine but don't really have any exercise tolerance it's not enough and you will need compounded scrotum cream.

Because of the really short half life of gels I don't subscribe to the theory you need to be on it for 12 weeks to notice its working or not you will know almost immediately.

Good luck

 

[Systemlord]

Does gel (not applied to scrotum) increase DHT proportionately more than injections?

Topical T produces the highest DHT levels of any other formulation of TRT. Jatenzo takes second place for conversion to DHT but produces higher Free T versus topical.

I don’t feel any ups and downs on Jatenzo which has a very similar half-life to topical T.

Topical T, or Jatenzo, hormones are typically checked between 4-6 hours after dosing.

Steady states are achieved relatively fast on topical T and Jatenzo, usually 3 weeks is long enough for topical T to reach steady states.

 

[Systemlord]

for me injections added more muscle however gels leaned me out more

Muscular responses to testosterone replacement vary by administration route: a systematic review and meta‐analysis

Inconsistent fat‐free mass (FFM) and muscle strength responses have been reported in randomized clinical trials (RCTs) administering testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) to middle‐aged and older men. Our objective was to conduct a meta‐analysis ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Results​

When administration routes were collectively assessed, TRT was associated with increases in FFM [ES = 1.20 ± 0.15 (95% CI: 0.91, 1.49)], total body strength [ES = 0.90 ± 0.12 (0.67, 1.14)], lower‐extremity strength [ES = 0.77 ± 0.16 (0.45, 1.08)], and upper‐extremity strength [ES = 1.13 ± 0.18 (0.78, 1.47)] (P < 0.001 for all). When administration routes were evaluated separately, the ES magnitudes were larger and the per cent changes were 3–5 times greater for intramuscular TRT than for transdermal formulations vs. respective placebos, for all outcomes evaluated. Specifically, intramuscular TRT was associated with a 5.7% increase in FFM [ES = 1.49 ± 0.18 (1.13, 1.84)] and 10–13% increases in total body strength [ES = 1.39 ± 0.12 (1.15, 1.63)], lower‐extremity strength [ES = 1.39 ± 0.17 (1.07, 1.72)], and upper‐extremity strength [ES = 1.37 ± 0.17 (1.03, 1.70)] (P < 0.001 for all). In comparison, transdermal TRT was associated with only a 1.7% increase in FFM [ES = 0.98 ± 0.21 (0.58, 1.39)] and only 2–5% increases in total body [ES = 0.55 ± 0.17 (0.22, 0.88)] and upper‐extremity strength [ES = 0.97 ± 0.24 (0.50, 1.45)] (P < 0.001). Interestingly, transdermal TRT produced no change in lower‐extremity strength vs. placebo [ES = 0.26 ± 0.23 (−0.19, 0.70), P = 0.26]. Subanalyses of RCTs limiting enrolment to men ≥60 years of age produced similar results.

Conclusions​

Intramuscular TRT is more effective than transdermal formulations at increasing LBM and improving muscle strength in middle‐aged and older men, particularly in the lower extremities.

 

[Keepfit1]

The up and down of gels were very noticable to me some people try to get around it by dosing two pumps in the morning one in the early afternoon and then one early or late evening depending if they have to be somewhere or not.

Testogel I believe is the packets only which sucked for me and didn't give me anything close to good numbers even at the max two packet dose in the early AM so I'm wishing you good results.

If you are a good absorber you will notice it a few minutes after applying up to four hours after of which it should be a nice long trough but no crashing. If you will really don't feel any better at all you will need two packets, if you feel fine but don't really have any exercise tolerance it's not enough and you will need compounded scrotum cream.

Because of the really short half life of gels I don't subscribe to the theory you need to be on it for 12 weeks to notice its working or not you will know almost immediately.

Good luck

Not sure where you are but in UK it also comes in bottle with pumps, each pump is 20mg, I do 2 in morning, one at 2pm and 1/2 in evening , works quite well. I also do 30-40mg Cyp per week daily microdose so 5mg per day because testogel drops too low overnight

 

[Keepfit1]

Check out the lifting dermatologist on YouTube.

he is on cream not gel, he used 20% cream and it seems it keeps him up round 1400, he looks pretty jacked on it , high DHT may explain why he has no hair, seems a decent guy

 

[Keepfit1]

Topical T produces the highest DHT levels of any other formulation of TRT. Jatenzo takes second place for conversion to DHT but produces higher Free T versus topical.

I don’t feel any ups and downs on Jatenzo which has a very similar half-life to topical T.

Topical T, or Jatenzo, hormones are typically checked between 4-6 hours after dosing.

Steady states are achieved relatively fast on topical T and Jatenzo, usually 3 weeks is long enough for topical T to reach steady states.

do we have any data showing Jatenzo and Gel DHT comparison?