HCG Only Treatment for Low Test

[Stringer]

Hi All,

Been reading the forum for a little while, first time posting. I have had low normal testosterone levels for a few years, and have a lot of typical low testosterone symptoms (low sex drive, constant fatigue and mental fogginess, memory issues, depression/anxiety, trouble putting on weight/muscle).

I got into a men's clinic, and they felt that many of my symptoms could be testosterone related, but they wanted to try a HCG-only treatment to see how I would respond, as they felt that the cause was more likely due to pituitary as opposed to testicle health (I'm 35). They told me that there is far less chance of any side effects, and that there is no risk of this treatment in terms of affecting long term natural testosterone production (if the treatment was stopped).

I am about 3 weeks into taking the injections (.4ml or 400IU x3 a week), and haven't really noticed much improvement in symptoms yet.

Has anyone tried this kind of treatment, and if so how effective was it? Was what I was told true about there being no risk at this dose? I read online somewhere that long term high HCG treatment can damage the leydig cells.

My bloodwork numbers (Canadian units):

Testosterone: 11.4 Range 8.4-28.8 nmol/L
Testosterone Free: 202 Range 196-636 pmol/L
Luteinizing Hormone: 2 Range 2-6 IU/L
Prolactin: 5 Range 2-18 ug/L
Estradiol: 90 Range <150 pmol/L
DHEA-S: 10.3 Range <15.0 umol/L

Thanks in advance

 

[Re-Ride]

Welcome to Excelmale Srtinger. Yes and no. hCG will shut down your Hypothalamus Pituitary Axis just like exogenous testosterone will. Simplistically speaking the glands which normally trigger the testes to produce T and make sperm, LH, FSH, will have "gone to sleep" while on therapy. Think of it as disuse atrophy of muscle. When needed again post therapy the extent to which they "bulk back up" varies from man to man. The pituitary and hypothalamus usually resume production but not always and sometimes not completely. Even when they do it is almost alwaysat the same level as before.

For hcG monotherapy the hypothalamus or pituitary are rarely if ever damaged from "going to sleep" as it pertains to LH and FSH production. I don't think anyone knows the number of months or years one would have to suppress LH and FSH production from hCG use before there is a permanent reduction in their hormone producing capability. We do know that in TRT this varies tremendously with some men recovering very fast and others not at all. PCT is the process of restarting normal production and it requires certain medications, typically for 6 to eight weeks.

When a young man presents with low T it is best to seek the cause. I t appears this was not done in your case. One cause is a pituitary tumor. Imaging rules that out. Other causes are diet and environmental exposure.

Since you've already started hCG mono it is probably a good idea to stick with it and monitor its effectiveness with follow-up serum hormone assays at 6 weeks. 400 IU 3xweekly is a very modest dose. The labeled dose in the US is 2500 IU 3x weekly. Another member here recently reported success with the low dose approach. It has the advantage of avoiding undesired estrogen production.

Meanwhile you can still seek imaging to rule out a pituitary tumor and read the stickies here on how to avoid things that depress your natural hormones and to improve your diet. Taking one of the few supplements that are proven by study to boost your health should be considered but don't go overboard or waste money on retail formulas or capsules. Quality foods are always the first place to park your loonies. An example might be choosing elk, bison or game over grain fed beef produced with hormones and antibiotics.

HRT/TRT is usually for life. You may not yet have done everything possible to boost your endogenous T production. You haven't done yourself harm by trying hCG. When low T gets in the way of life many men choose the fastest root possible to feel better. The fast track is to begin TRT with cyp injections. hCG low dose in combination with T is considered state of the art therapy. The direction you go is a personal choice.

I was on TRT for decades although it wasn't done correctly. For the past year I've been on hCG mono in combination with aminos, a few supplements and a better diet. I'm feeling 1000% better. I will likely go to duo therapy next. The most important road to take is educating yourself. Everything you need to know can be found on these pages and in Nelson's books. Thanks to the fantastic contributions he has made and those of others any man desiring to improve his mental and physical functioning now has a clear guide.

edit: Your Canadian doctor chose hCG at a reasonable dose which is considered safe and effective in state of the art endocrine care. That's highly commendable! What a shame the overwhelming majority of U.S. physicians aren't of the same caliber.

 

[socks]

After Re-Rides extensive response, there's not much else to be said. I can however point you towards two guys who experienced hCG monotherapy success. A note, they both had very low estradiol levels before beginning therapy and that's something of significance given that hCG tends to aromatize easily in some folks, but moderate dosages help alleviate that issue in some.

CSI007

HCG monotherapy appears to be working. I have another thread detailing my progress but a summary (45 years old):

Started out around 289 Total and about 6 to 7 free. Clomid for two weeks (25mg EOD) - brought it up to about 327 but I had to stop because of pretty severe eye pain. Started HCG 500iu every 3.5 days ( about 3 weeks after stopping clomid) Tested at the 4 week point (day after injection) and had a total T of 579 and free of 22. Finally got my E2 up from below 7 to about 20. I feel pretty darn good now and my ED has lessened considerably but still not where I would like it. My libido is much improved - from basically nothing and thinking nothing of the opposite sex to thinking about it frequently again. I just took an injection today to start week 8 I think. I will have my blood tested again in about 3 months and see where we are. Doc thinks my T should get to about 700 total and the free T will come down a bit in to a normal range.

I am also taking supplements for my thyroid and T3 (5mg twice a day) along with 8000iu of liquid D3. both my D3 and iodine were low and both are now in low to low mid normal range.

Dale338 - member on another forum

46 year old healthy, semi-fit. 5'11" 180 pounds, good muscle mass. For the past four years, my sex drive (libido) and erection regularity and quality has declined. Went to a men's clinic a few months ago and labs were run. I was hovering at 510 T levels and E2 at 15.6. Pretty good for a man my age, but these places are willing to treat you more based on symptoms rather than just lab numbers like physicians. I asked for TRT and doctor wasn't really going for it. He suggested hcg monotherapy at a very low dose and adjust as needed. Started me off on daily SUBQ injections of 100iu. Low I know, but his gut told him my receptors might respond to a little kick in the ass would still be receptive.

Long story short, by the third day I started feeling better. Testies ached a bit, but were filling in. Shot up about 1/3 in size within the first week. I could feel things working and morning wood was back with a vengeance. Fast forward to 60 labs. In the meantime, I researched and found the downside of HCG monotherapy was usually a sharp rise in E2. So despite not having my labs in yet, at week three into this, I ordered DIM and Zinc and began taking a mid-level dose of each daily just as a precaution.

My 60 days labs came back and I was at T-636 and E2-21.2. I was feeling great. Asked doctor if we needed to change dose and he declined. It's working, why try and fix it. kept everything the same and 120 days labs were T-744 and E2-20.8. Feeling even better. Asked him if these numbers maintained could I stay on this for the long term and asked about desensitizing. He said since I had responded so well to a low dose, desensitizing would not likely ever happen, but suggested eventually I'd need TRT like most men. Asked how long that might be and he guessed anywhere from 5-10 years.

Am I wishfully thinking I can do this daily for the next 5-10 years?

Anyone have any sugeestions? Should I take breaks from the HCG? Maybe once every 3 or 6 months? I want this therapy as an option as it works for me. I want it for as long as possible before having to go on TRT.

Other things I've been doing is running three times a week and hitting the gym. I use daily DHEA 40mg cream and pregnenolone 25mg cream. I feel about 28 again and life is good overall. Thought I would share, as I was unable to find really even one success story out there on men on HCG monotherapy.

 

[Stringer]

Thanks very much for the responses guys. Good to know how important estradiol levels can be here.

Re-ride, thanks for the info on HPTA shutting down production - I wasn't aware that it responded similarly to how it does with test. That's a bit concerning actually - if this treatment is not effective, I hope I can bounce back ok.

Regarding causes, a possible pituitary tumor was not discussed. He seemed to think that the low pituitary function could have been caused by hits to the head from contact sports when I was younger. I played hockey for 9 years, and could recall a couple of occasions when I had symptoms that could've been a concussion (that went untreated).

This might be a dumb question, but can depression, low self esteem or stress cause a decrease in pituitary function/low LH? I have a history of mental health issues which did start before I noticed any physical symptoms. All of my symptoms became much worse after getting off of Effexor XR in mid-2013 which I was on for 5 years. I haven't been able to figure out if that is a root cause or a symptom of something else. I have been working through CBT exercises and will continue to work on this.

I feel like I'm fairly educated on the best diet and exercise for testosterone, though I will read up on the guides to see if I can make improvements. I try to have a good amount of fat in my diet, with a lot of fruits and vegetables. I should try to invest in grass fed beef again, which I have done in the past. I try not to have too much factory farmed beef. Regarding exercise, I hit the gym a couple of times a week and do sprints or sports at least once a week as well.

Stress management is a weak spot as I don't ever feel like I can truly relax. I feel like I always need to be working to fix my health and fix my life.

Thanks again.

 

[Re-Ride]

Head injury can do it. MRI to rule out the tumor is expensive. Therefore the majority just get put on TRT. If you push for it you might get it.

Depression and a lowered cognition are very common complaints from low T. Don't worry one bit about hCG damaging your axis. As for whether it will work or not the prognosis is excellent. You likely could start feeling great faster on a higher dose but as "CS" has demonstrated the low dose approach can work. If it doesn't show your doc the small study recently posted by Dr. Saya on here and ask him if he is willing to try 400 IU EOD. Next would be 500 EOD. Your goal is to take the minimum amount to achieve your best T response. Keep in mind that unlike TRT the endogenous T produced by your testes only lasts an hour or two. You must keep serum hCG high enough to constantly stim the testes at a low level. This is unlike the natural state where testes receive pulses of LH throughout the day but it is proven to work and is safe. Finding the precise amount of hCG required without overdoing it and causing high E2 takes trial and error. For each man it's different, On average it seems to be about 500 EOD.

It has recently been found that there are LH receptors throughout the CNS. For this reason you will soon be enjoying a nice boost in mood. The effexor may very well have caused your low T. Very likely it worsened it. Hopefully, with the right aminos and HRT you won't need SRI's ever again. A 24 hour cortisol study seems to be a regular recommendation around here. It's a salivary test.

I hope you can find relief from your symptoms with aminos and stabilized serum T>700 alone. If not look at herbal options which are proven safe. Valerian is gaining popularity Delving in to research on supplements can be exhausting. ALC, NAC, ALA, L Glutamine as pure powders are safe bets for most men. Should you experience any Ed be sure to read Gene's NO stack thread. I'm unsure of the safety of CBT you mentioned. As a precaution consider asking your s.o. to at least lay off the compression.

Getting quality sleep is critical. Rule out sleep apnea, a serous condition which impacts health in many ways yet is often un-diagnosed.

 

[socks]

Head injury can do it. MRI to rule out the tumor is expensive. Therefore the majority just get put on TRT. If you push for it you might get it.

Don't worry one bit about hCG damaging your axis. As for whether it will work or not the prognosis is excellent. You likely could start feeling great faster on a higher dose but as "CS" has demonstrated the low dose approach can work.

@Stringer
On head injuries and hormonal dysfunction, Dr. Mark Gordon seems to be the leading authority on this topic. Here is a link to a recent podcast where I heard him discuss the former along with trt modalities.

As for hCG damaging the HPTA, the general consensus is that it causes less suppression than exogenous testosterone to gonadotropin(LH/FSH) release and leydig cell sensitivity. In theory, at the appropriate dose (100-500iu) hcg should actually enhance leydig cell sensitivity in secondary hypogonadal males with a history of very low levels of endogenous LH secretion.

That said, I haven't see any studies to support the idea that hcg will cause less suppression of endogenous gonadotropins compared to trt.

 

[CoastWatcher]

Just a note on estradiol monitoring. Like you, I live in Canada. The sensitive E2 test (LC, MS/MS) is unavailable outside the United States. It can pose problems in terms of dialing in your protocol. Since I'm in the States three times a month I simply arrange with Discountedlabs.com to draw blood during a visit and go from there. Our members outside the US all have to factor this in.

 

[Stringer]

Great information - thanks Re-Ride. I think I am noticing the mood benefits albeit slowly. I'm definitely trying improve sleep quality by going to bed earlier and more consistently (especially on weekends) but I'm finding this difficult. If one has sleep apnea, would they wake up often in the night, or not necessarily? I did have a sleep study done and I don't think sleep apnea was observed.
Thanks

 

[Stringer]

@Stringer
On head injuries and hormonal dysfunction, Dr. Mark Gordon seems to be the leading authority on this topic. Here is a link to a recent podcast where I heard him discuss the former along with trt modalities.

As for hCG damaging the HPTA, the general consensus is that it causes less suppression than exogenous testosterone to gonadotropin(LH/FSH) release and leydig cell sensitivity. In theory, at the appropriate dose (100-500iu) hcg should actually enhance leydig cell sensitivity in secondary hypogonadal males with a history of very low levels of endogenous LH secretion.

That said, I haven't see any studies to support the idea that hcg will cause less suppression of endogenous gonadotropins compared to trt.

Thanks for the link socks, I'll check that out. That makes me feel better about the lasting effect of hCG, I appreciate that.

 

[Stringer]

Just a note on estradiol monitoring. Like you, I live in Canada. The sensitive E2 test (LC, MS/MS) is unavailable outside the United States. It can pose problems in terms of dialing in your protocol. Since I'm in the States three times a month I simply arrange with Discountedlabs.com to draw blood during a visit and go from there. Our members outside the US all have to factor this in.

Good to know CoastWatcher, thanks.

 

[Nelson Vergel]

HCG Monotherapy- Previous Posts

HCG monotherapy: Good first option for a Secondary case?
www.excelmale.com/showthread.php?2061*HCG*monotherapy...

Since I still have total T in the range of 380*600, I would like to try HCG monotherapy first either with/without an AI before T*Cyp. Furthermore ...



Using HCG alone versus Testosterone alone or Testosterone + HCG ...
www.excelmale.com/archive/index.php/t*690.html

Not HCG monotherapy, No Clomid and no aromatase inhibitor even though they all increase your own testosterone blood levels. I wish I could ...



New Doctor. Put me on HCG monotherapy for secondary ...

But a lot of guys my age with secondary hypogonadism seem to respond well to HCG
monotherapy. He also put me on 5000 IU of Vitamin D ...





starting HCG monotherapy
www.excelmale.com/showthread.php?2361...HCG*monotherapy

I worked with dr and we decided the least invasive method would be to try HCG monotherapy without the DHEA. And see how I do over six ...



HCG Monotherapy * Latest labs and question
www.excelmale.com/showthread.php?3006*HCG*Monotherapy...

I started HCG monotherapy which raised my total T to 617 but my e2 went up to 94! I then started
.2mg of Anastrozole (believe to be same as ...



HCG Monotherapy, should I stay on it?
www.excelmale.com/showthread.php?3054*HCG*Monotherapy...

I've been prescribed HCG at 4000 iu/week (daily injections) and after a few months of trial and error with dosing/frequency, and the addition of ...



Help with getting my T back in order * HCG monotherapy, high e2

I am on HCG monotherapy, I've always done EOD (3 times a week) and at all different levels. Before treatment, I was at 252 for total T and I've ...



HCG Monotherapy Question
www.excelmale.com/showthread.php?3274*HCG*Monotherapy...

HCG Monotherapy Question. Hi All, Thanks for the great effort running this site. I am 28 m and have low T (280). Diagnosed about 6 months ...



Looking for much needed help * Low T, younger, HCG monotherapy

Hey all, New member here looking for some relief to my exhaustive struggle to correct my low T. I'm hoping someone here can shed some light ...



HCG monotherapy prescribed for fertility and low testosterone ...
monotherapy...

All, This is my first post,I am 30yrs old and i was diagnosed with male factor infertility,i have a normal sperm count but very low motility.

 

[Re-Ride]

Great list of links Nelson!.

environmental causes of endocrine dysfunction:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6291475

http://www.berkeleyside.com/2013/03/05/testing-berkeley-homes-for-hazards-what-we-found/
your furniture may be deadly

household cleaners, even organic produce:
glycol esters are everywhere
perchlorate is a contaminant of water - Colorado river water for example is high in perchlorates. Organic lettuce grown in that region would not be a good choice.

Mecola has excellent information on how to go about cleaning up your home if you can deal with the pop-ups for subscription.

https://www.excelmale.com/forum/showthread.php?501-How-to-Increase-Testosterone-Naturally

https://www.excelmale.com/forum/sho...sterone-and-Erectile-Function-Lecture-Handout

 

[Stringer]

Since I still have total T in the range of 380*600, I would like to try HCG monotherapy first either with/without an AI before T*Cyp. Furthermore ...

Not HCG monotherapy, No Clomid and no aromatase inhibitor even though they all increase your own testosterone blood levels. I wish I could ...



New Doctor. Put me on HCG monotherapy for secondary ...monotherapy...

But a lot of guys my age with secondary hypogonadism seem to respond well to HCG
monotherapy. He also put me on 5000 IU of Vitamin D ...




I worked with dr and we decided the least invasive method would be to try HCG monotherapy without the DHEA. And see how I do over six ...



HCG Monotherapy * Latest labs and question
I started HCG monotherapy which raised my total T to 617 but my e2 went up to 94! I then started
.2mg of Anastrozole (believe to be same as ...



HCG Monotherapy, should I stay on it?
www.excelmale.com/showthread.php?3054*HCG*Monotherapy...

I've been prescribed HCG at 4000 iu/week (daily injections) and after a few months of trial and error with dosing/frequency, and the addition of ...



Help with getting my T back in order * HCG monotherapy, high e2 monotherapy...

I am on HCG monotherapy, I've always done EOD (3 times a week) and at all different levels. Before treatment, I was at 252 for total T and I've ...



HCG Monotherapy Question
www.excelmale.com/showthread.php?3274*HCG*Monotherapy...

HCG Monotherapy Question. Hi All, Thanks for the great effort running this site. I am 28 m and have low T (280). Diagnosed about 6 months ...



Looking for much needed help * Low T, younger, HCG monotherapy
*monotherapy

Hey all, New member here looking for some relief to my exhaustive struggle to correct my low T. I'm hoping someone here can shed some light ...



HCG monotherapy prescribed for fertility and low testosterone ... monotherapy...

All, This is my first post,I am 30yrs old and i was diagnosed with male factor infertility,i have a normal sperm count but very low motility.

Thanks very much for these Nelson, I guess "monotherapy" is what I was supposed to be searching for with HCG...

 

[Stringer]

Great list of links Nelson!.

environmental causes of endocrine dysfunction:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6291475

http://www.berkeleyside.com/2013/03/05/testing-berkeley-homes-for-hazards-what-we-found/
your furniture may be deadly

household cleaners, even organic produce:
glycol esters are everywhere
perchlorate is a contaminant of water - Colorado river water for example is high in perchlorates. Organic lettuce grown in that region would not be a good choice.

Mecola has excellent information on how to go about cleaning up your home if you can deal with the pop-ups for subscription.

https://www.excelmale.com/forum/showthread.php?501-How-to-Increase-Testosterone-Naturally

https://www.excelmale.com/forum/sho...sterone-and-Erectile-Function-Lecture-Handout

Great info, thanks again Re-Ride.

 

[Aleeri]

Great thread. I have had success in mood and energy boosting along with decreasing anxiety, but number wise on my labs the improvement it not huge. I think there is a lot more to HCG then we think.

 

[Stringer]

Great thread. I have had success in mood and energy boosting along with decreasing anxiety, but number wise on my labs the improvement it not huge. I think there is a lot more to HCG then we think.

 

[Stringer]

Hey All, I thought I would give an update on this. A little over a week after my last post I had my testosterone levels checked, and they came back as 13.5 nmol/L with a range of 8.4 - 28.8. So my levels came up a small amount, and I was noticing mild improvement to my symptoms. This seemed to persist over the last couple of months, though I haven't been feeling as well the last 2-3 weeks. This could be due to not getting as much exercise and not being as disciplined with sleep.

I had my levels checked last week, and they came back as 9.8 nmol/L, so even lower than what I started with. The funny thing is, I think my symptoms are better now on hCG and lower testosterone levels. My estradiol came back as 84 pmol/L (<150).

I saw my doctor this week, and he wanted to try either Clomid or testosterone injections. He didn't seem interested in a higher dose of hCG, though I didn't ask to be honest. I said that I was interested in trying the Clomid. I've done some reading on it and it seems that it has worked well for a lot of people, though it can spike up estrogen, and there are concerns about long term use. He prescribed 50mg every 3 days. He said that he has just started putting men on Clomid, and uses this kind of "pulsing" dose after another doctor had great success with it.

Any thoughts on this dose or on Clomid in general? I'm actually nervous about stopping with the hCG after I have seen some improvement, but I definitely want to be doing better than I have been.
Thanks

 

[ERO]

Clomid can work great for some but it can also be tricky and, generally speaking, requires an experienced doctor to help make it work. You may or may not need an AI on it, your dosing may work great, or may need to be tweaked, etc...Dr Saya who often posts on this board has a lot of Clomid experience. I believe he often uses a small daily dose.

 

[Re-Ride]

Stringer, his protocols have been reasonable. He's offering you choices. If your serum T doesn't improve on clomid it's time for TRT. Will he prescribe TRT with hCG if Clomid fails?

 

[Stringer]

Clomid can work great for some but it can also be tricky and, generally speaking, requires an experienced doctor to help make it work. You may or may not need an AI on it, your dosing may work great, or may need to be tweaked, etc...Dr Saya who often posts on this board has a lot of Clomid experience. I believe he often uses a small daily dose.

Good to know, thanks ERO.