Getting OFF testosterone questions

[synthroidguy]

Dear Nelson and crew,

I have no thyroid. 46 year old male, had thyroid removed from subacute thyroiditis. In the mix i found out my total T was 215. I am having a heck of a time getting my thyroid balanced AND the testosterone in gear. So the doctor has suggested i get off the testosterone until i get one good report card on the thyroid.

I have been on .3 on a 200 ML bottle of cypinate for 2 years now. Its not a ton, but i wanted to know if its safe to just stop, do i need to ween off etc. also will my testicles recover, i am told they didnt shrink but i am afraid they did. What is expected from stopping? I will be getting back on at some point, but I need to get this thyroid balanced to get off this roller coaster of fatigue and nausea. My labs are all over the place.

thanks in advance,

synthroid E. Guy

 

[HarryCat]

Personally I have not found a strong link between my TRT and my hypothyroid treatments. I have been adjusting both at the same time and don't feel that they have been interfering much with each other. I have found that, at least for me, trying to get my thyroid meds dialed in has been well over 90% of my problem.

From your signature it sounds like you are taking synthroid only, most people your age do not do well on synthroid only and do better adding in some T3. I've also found a huge difference in how I feel on different brands of T4. I've tried synthroid, Tirosint, unithroid and Sandoz. Synthroid has povidone and acacia in it. Tirosint, unithroid, and Sandoz do not have povidone, but the unithroid has acacia. Many people have negative reactions to povidone and acacia fillers. I found that I do much, much better on Sandoz T4, it feels as if the others have no active ingredient at all in comparison. I've been feeling so much better that I've started to add some T3 back in to my protocol.

Have you ever tried NDT? Many people do very well on that.

When you say that you labs are all over the place, do you mean test., thyroid, or both?

And to get back to your main question, if you did not feel a great improvement when getting on test. you probably won't feel all that different going off. Personally, when I've gone off I've gotten hot flashes, muscle weakness, and increased fatigue.

 

[synthroidguy]

Lets assume that I have been around the block on the thyroid issue, medications, treatments etc. Lets assume I know there is to know about thyroid, but trying to teeter totter the thyroid and the testosterone has been a challenge. So i want to get off the testosterone for now and just concentrate on the thyroid. Then when my labs are perfect i want to see how i feel.

I am down to .3 on a 200 ML bottle of cypinate. I want to stop the testosterone, and my endocrinologist has approved this, but unfortunately he is not as well versed on testosterone as he is thyroid. So i post here in hopes to get answers about stopping the testosterone. I don't think I'm on a huge amount, but what do i need to know about stopping it? Is there something i need to take in the meantime? do i need to taper off the testosterone or stop cold turkey? will my testicles rebound? load volume, etc?

Personally I have not found a strong link between my TRT and my hypothyroid treatments. I have been adjusting both at the same time and don't feel that they have been interfering much with each other. I have found that, at least for me, trying to get my thyroid meds dialed in has been well over 90% of my problem.

From your signature it sounds like you are taking synthroid only, most people your age do not do well on synthroid only and do better adding in some T3. I've also found a huge difference in how I feel on different brands of T4. I've tried synthroid, Tirosint, unithroid and Sandoz. Synthroid has povidone and acacia in it. Tirosint, unithroid, and Sandoz do not have povidone, but the unithroid has acacia. Many people have negative reactions to povidone and acacia fillers. I found that I do much, much better on Sandoz T4, it feels as if the others have no active ingredient at all in comparison. I've been feeling so much better that I've started to add some T3 back in to my protocol.

Have you ever tried NDT? Many people do very well on that.

When you say that you labs are all over the place, do you mean test., thyroid, or both?

And to get back to your main question, if you did not feel a great improvement when getting on test. you probably won't feel all that different going off. Personally, when I've gone off I've gotten hot flashes, muscle weakness, and increased fatigue.

 

[HarryCat]

Assuming you are secondary, my endo said it was OK to quit cold turkey and that is what I did. He said it would take 8 weeks to get back to baseline.

Your HPTA may or may not restart and get you back to where you started, some guys will do HCG or clomid or another SERM to try and restart. If you don't restart you will end up with much lower levels than when you started.

 

[synthroidguy]

how will i know if i "re-start"? pretend like I'm in the 8th grade and you are explaining this to me.

 

[HarryCat]

See this:

https://www.excelmale.com/forum/thr...olics-You-May-Want-to-Read-this-HPTA-protocol

and this:

https://www.excelmale.com/?s=56-How...-Safely-and-Possibly-Reset-Your-Hormonal-Axis

 

[HarryCat]

and more specifically, you'll know you restarted if your LH, FSH, and testosterone labs come back to about where they were before you started TRT.

 

[synthroidguy]

Is the HCG an injection or drops. Im on such a small amount of testosterone. Im just a regular guy. Im toned but 5'10 160 pounds. i was 175 pounds until the thyroid bullshit started. Im not looking to be a muscle man. I'm 46, two kids, could care less about sperm count. Do you think tapering off the testosterone (going from 3, to 2 to 1) is a good solution?

 

[HarryCat]

What are your levels right now? I've come off T a few times (it's a long story, but needless to say it was before I educated myself about it), always cold turkey. I found I crashed hardest when my T levels were the highest. Assuming your current levels are pretty low (how often are you injecting the 0.3ml?) you shouldn't have too hard a time. Tapering certainly can't hurt, as your levels come down at some point your pituitary should recognize that your T levels have dropped below its built in set point and should start producing LH and FSH again. Hopefully your testes will then start up to whatever level they can. As to how long to taper, I don't know, I would think you could do it by decreasing you dose 0.1 every week or two. (assuming weekly injections)
HCG is done by injections, I've not read anything that would convince me that the drops actually do more than just a placebo effect.

Disclaimer: I am not a doctor and I am just telling you what I've experienced and learned during the course of trying to regain my own health. Discuss any treatment options with your doctor.

 

[synthroidguy]

my levels before replacement was 280, 270 etc. I keep it at about 573-700. I inject .3 on 200 ML every saturday. yesterday i did just .2

 

[Nelson Vergel]

Synthroid guy,

I think you are assuming that you cannot get your thyroid balanced while on TRT. Is that what your doctor told you?

 

[synthroidguy]

well, he didnt tell me this, however as my thyroid levels fluctuate like crazy, so do the testosterone levels. I'm all over the place. He wants to start with one thing and get that straight first. I don't have a thyroid so that would be the key piece. One time my testosterone was 1100. the next time it was 573. No change in dose. The thyroid went from very hyper to very hypo in the matter of 5 weeks. SO i guess he wants to start fresh and get one think checked off the list.

plus I'm on such a low dose of testosterone (.3 on 200 ml) that i cant see how that would really make a difference if i got off it ? If i was on .6 or 100 ML and stopped that would be different, but .3?

Synthroid guy,

I think you are assuming that you cannot get your thyroid balanced while on TRT. Is that what your doctor told you?

 

[GettingAnswers]

You inject once a week with a low dose so my first thought is when did you test? Once a week there will still be some highs and lows so if the first time you tested right as the levels peaked and then the second time it was near the end of a injection cycle then maybe that explains the variations .

Second, no matter what the dose your own production is shut down. Depending on your age and overall functioning you may crash for a short while , for many months, or indefinitely. Without help that is.

Second. At that low dose you very well could have low values. You are on a dose that is not expected to get most people out of the 500 range.

 

[synthroidguy]

okay so i need to go see my urologist and ask to be put on something then to get back to where i need to be?

You inject once a week with a low dose so my first thought is when did you test? Once a week there will still be some highs and lows so if the first time you tested right as the levels peaked and then the second time it was near the end of a injection cycle then maybe that explains the variations .

Second, no matter what the dose your own production is shut down. Depending on your age and overall functioning you may crash for a short while , for many months, or indefinitely. Without help that is.

Second. At that low dose you very well could have low values. You are on a dose that is not expected to get most people out of the 500 range.

 

[GettingAnswers]

I think the overwhelming consensus would be that at age 46, after having been on for two years, you may not have an easy time restarting especially if you haven't been on hcg all along. Clomid or nolvadex are used to help boost lh and fsh and may help. Research it on this site. There is some evidence that Clomid interferes with thyroid hormone uptake but maybe not enough to worry about.

Hopefully you will get some gurus to chime in on quitting trt to get thyroid in line. I know when you are starting from scratch they say to do thyroid first but I don't know if the same applies if you have been on it for two years.

 

[synthroidguy]

just lovely.

I think the overwhelming consensus would be that at age 46, after having been on for two years, you may not have an easy time restarting especially if you haven't been on hcg all along. Clomid or nolvadex are used to help boost lh and fsh and may help. Research it on this site. There is some evidence that Clomid interferes with thyroid hormone uptake but maybe not enough to worry about.

Hopefully you will get some gurus to chime in on quitting trt to get thyroid in line. I know when you are starting from scratch they say to do thyroid first but I don't know if the same applies if you have been on it for two years.