First time using TRT and thinking about adjusting the dosage

[Roberto_G]

Hey everyone, glad to have found this forum. I recently injected my first IM dose of testosterone, which is set for 200mg once a week. The schedule from the physician is:
Day1: Testosterone intramuscular injection
Day2: Anastrozole 1mg
Day3: -
Day4: -
Day5: Anastrozole 1mg
Day6: B12 sub-Q injection 1000mcg
Day7: 500 Units HCG sub-Q injection

This goes on for about 5 months and then there will be a post-treatment cleanse with higher doses of HCG and Clomiphene.

The first day, I was amazed. My mood and energy sky-rocketed, and I felt like I found the miracle cure. Nothing bothered me at all and everyone seemed really nice, lol. The next day was a lot moodier, and I realized then that I may have spiked my levels too high, or perhaps the anastrozole had negative side effects. Though I understand the importance of limiting estrogen. Anyways, after researching some I decided to try doing a bi-weekly dose, where I do 100mg on Day1, and another 100mg on Day 5, to balance out the mood swings and keep my testosterone at a steadier level. Would it be okay to take a 100mg Test injection on the same day as taking a 1mg Anastrozole, or should I reconfigure that some? I haven't even completed a week yet, so if mood swings are common at first, maybe I should just tough it out and adjust after the first few weeks at 200mg once a week, but twice a week does sound logical and probably healthier.

edit: maybe I should do the second 100mg injection on Day4? That might be more balanced actually

 

[madman]

Hey everyone, glad to have found this forum. I recently injected my first IM dose of testosterone, which is set for 200mg once a week. The schedule from the physician is:
Day1: Testosterone intramuscular injection
Day2: Anastrozole 1mg
Day3: -
Day4: -
Day5: Anastrozole 1mg
Day6: B12 sub-Q injection 1000mcg
Day7: 500 Units HCG sub-Q injection

This goes on for about 5 months and then there will be a post-treatment cleanse with higher doses of HCG and Clomiphene.

The first day, I was amazed. My mood and energy sky-rocketed, and I felt like I found the miracle cure. Nothing bothered me at all and everyone seemed really nice, lol. The next day was a lot moodier, and I realized then that I may have spiked my levels too high, or perhaps the anastrozole had negative side effects. Though I understand the importance of limiting estrogen. Anyways, after researching some I decided to try doing a bi-weekly dose, where I do 100mg on Day1, and another 100mg on Day 5, to balance out the mood swings and keep my testosterone at a steadier level. Would it be okay to take a 100mg Test injection on the same day as taking a 1mg Anastrozole, or should I reconfigure that some? I haven't even completed a week yet, so if mood swings are common at first, maybe I should just tough it out and adjust after the first few weeks at 200mg once a week, but twice a week does sound logical and probably healthier.

edit: maybe I should do the second 100mg injection on Day4? That might be more balanced actually

The protocol you have been prescribed is horrible.....200mg is way too high for trt for most men let alone a ridiculously high starting dose.

That dose will have your testosterone levels well into the supra-physiological range let alone sky rocket ones e2 hence why your idiot doctor prescribed 2mg of anastrozole/week which is insanely high amount for an a.i.

You will end up crashing your e2 levels.

Do you have pre-trt labs to post and what was your total t/free t and e2 (sensitive assay) levels?

What is your shbg as it is critical and will dictate your injection frequency?

Was your e2 even elevated pre-trt and were you experiencing any high e2 symptoms.

Pre-trt labs should include total t, free t, estradiol (sensitive assay), shbg, dht, prolactin, dhea, vitamin d, lh/fsh, full cbc panel including hemoglobin/hematocrit, TSH panel, psa, and other basic blood work.

 

[Nashtide]

Hey everyone, glad to have found this forum. I recently injected my first IM dose of testosterone, which is set for 200mg once a week. The schedule from the physician is:
Day1: Testosterone intramuscular injection
Day2: Anastrozole 1mg
Day3: -
Day4: -
Day5: Anastrozole 1mg
Day6: B12 sub-Q injection 1000mcg
Day7: 500 Units HCG sub-Q injection

This goes on for about 5 months and then there will be a post-treatment cleanse with higher doses of HCG and Clomiphene.

The first day, I was amazed. My mood and energy sky-rocketed, and I felt like I found the miracle cure. Nothing bothered me at all and everyone seemed really nice, lol. The next day was a lot moodier, and I realized then that I may have spiked my levels too high, or perhaps the anastrozole had negative side effects. Though I understand the importance of limiting estrogen. Anyways, after researching some I decided to try doing a bi-weekly dose, where I do 100mg on Day1, and another 100mg on Day 5, to balance out the mood swings and keep my testosterone at a steadier level. Would it be okay to take a 100mg Test injection on the same day as taking a 1mg Anastrozole, or should I reconfigure that some? I haven't even completed a week yet, so if mood swings are common at first, maybe I should just tough it out and adjust after the first few weeks at 200mg once a week, but twice a week does sound logical and probably healthier.

edit: maybe I should do the second 100mg injection on Day4? That might be more balanced actually

Good thing you got here early in the process! That protocol sucks and you need to educate yourself before you spend months trying to recover from this lunacy.

 

[FeelingLost]

The protocol you have been prescribed is horrible.....200mg is way too high for trt for most men let alone a ridiculously high starting dose.

That dose will have your testosterone levels well into the supra-physiological range let alone sky rocket ones e2 hence why your idiot doctor prescribed 2mg of anastrozole/week which is insanely high amount for an a.i.

You will end up crashing your e2 levels.

Do you have pre-trt labs to post and what was your total t/free t and e2 (sensitive assay) levels?

What is your shbg as it is critical and will dictate your injection frequency?

Was your e2 even elevated pre-trt and were you experiencing any high e2 symptoms.

Pre-trt labs should include total t, free t, estradiol (sensitive assay), shbg, dht, prolactin, dhea, vitamin d, lh/fsh, full cbc panel including hemoglobin/hematocrit, TSH panel, psa, and other basic blood work.

Hi Madman I wonder if some of these clinics are Blast and Cruise clinics without the Blast.
That could explain the 200mg/wk plus 2 mg of AI. You are right these are not TRT quanities but that may not be the clinics and or patients goal.

What do you think is that possible?

 

[madman]

Hi Madman I wonder if some of these clinics are Blast and Cruise clinics without the Blast.
That could explain the 200mg/wk plus 2 mg of AI. You are right these are not TRT quanities but that may not be the clinics and or patients goal.

What do you think is that possible?

I would say a lot of these so called T mills are run by people who basically throw men on high doses from the get go hence why an added a.i. seems to be a common part of the picture.

Basically they are jacking men up to achieve super high t levels and at first most men may feel well but again if the a.i. dose is too high which it usually is the protocol is a disaster from the beginning.

For the so called lucky men that at least get a more reasonable a.i. dose prescribed they usually feel amazing in the begining but after some time things usually go south.

Another underlying issue which tarnishes reasonable trt doses is building muscle as most men want to gain muscle/strength and its human nature to want to attain the best results and many men think that having their testosterone levels super high is the key to success regarding gains in muscle/strength in the gym and that they will all of a sudden be a raging sex machine and very low t symptom will be a thing of the past as in the "more is better approach".

Sure having healthy testosterone levels from trt as we know will allow someone to attain great improvements in body composition whether gaining muscle/strength or losing body fat along with a healthy diet/training but it is not the same as using high doses of testosterone as in cycling or blasting/cruising and having very high supra-physiological levels where one would be able to achieve big gains in muscle/strength and enhanced recovery.

There is no comparison between having testosterone levels in the high/normal physiological range 900-1200 ng/dl to having testosterone levels in the extremely high supra-physiological range 2000-5000 ng/dl when it comes to results one would achieve in gains muscle/strength or recovery abilities.....it is like night and day.

Very few men need 200mg/week of testosterone as that dose would put most mens levels into the 1800+ range and even though most would consider 250mg/week a mild testosterone cycle and a more common dose when using/abusing testosterone is in the 400-600mg range there are some men with great genetics that can make really good gains in muscle/strength using 200 mg/week.

Back in Arnolds era it was said that many would only use 200-400mg/week of testosterone and basic stacks were test/deca/d-bol or various combinations especially deca/d-bol.

 

[Roberto_G]

Ah, okay well yes I'm very glad I found this place early on, I've only had one dose and will stop the protocol immediately until I find out how to make the best use of what I purchased. I don't have the lab results on hand, the doctor basically read the results to me on the phone describing levels like "good", "low" and "average" rather than giving me exact figures. Though I do remember him saying that my testosterone was about 500, but I don't know if that was free test or what he was referring to. Anyways, I will try to get more information from them and thanks for the confirming my suspicions. Any advice or remedies on how to recover from a bad spike of testosterone like that? I still feel slightly edgy though it's getting better than it was on that second day

 

[Systemlord]

Ah, okay well yes I'm very glad I found this place early on, I've only had one dose and will stop the protocol immediately until I find out how to make the best use of what I purchased. I don't have the lab results on hand, the doctor basically read the results to me on the phone describing levels like "good", "low" and "average" rather than giving me exact figures. Though I do remember him saying that my testosterone was about 500, but I don't know if that was free test or what he was referring to. Anyways, I will try to get more information from them and thanks for the confirming my suspicions. Any advice or remedies on how to recover from a bad spike of testosterone like that? I still feel slightly edgy though it's getting better than it was on that second day

Post up all your labs (ranges included) and the members here will set you on a path that doesn't involve you suffering needlessly. We see these type of protocols being pushed by lunatics every day who really have no knowledge of what their doing, in an ideal world we want to see as little useage of Arimidex as possible, preferably none at all. You just might be able to get by on half that weekly dosage, we'll see.

 

[Sean Mosher]

2 mg of Anastrozole a week?
Wow..........please post labs and you'll get taken care of here.

 

[madman]

I don't really agree with 200mg/wk being crazy or unhealthy. A lot of guys come back with a trough of 800-1000 TT with 1x/wk dose. It's the standard protocol with my dr. I told him I wanted to split it into 2 doses which he said was fine. Trough was 850-1150. Bloodwork outstanding. Really no complaints.

AI dose is key. The obvious problem with the OP protocol is the AI. That's a fastrack to feeling awful.

As as far as dosage is concerned between 100-200/wk I thinks it a matter of how conservative you want to be. Doctors should take that into account imo. As time goes on patient should ask for what they want.

I would say more like 100-150mg/week is way more common for trt and many can attain high-normal levels using these doses.

A small percentage may need 200mg/week but is is rare and most men running 200 mg/week will be well over the top end of the physiological range and that is even at trough.

No one is saying it is unhealthy it is just not needed to attain healthy levels and once you get into higher doses the only real benefit is gains in muscle/strength as mid-normal to high-normal physiological testosterone levels (total t/free t) along with healthy e2 are all that is needed in order to relieve/improve low t symptoms.

If one feels they need to have testosterone levels well over the top end of the physiological range to experience relief/improvements from low t than they need to look else where as I would say they have dysfunctional thyroid/adrenals or other underlying health issues.

Sure to each his own and everyone should do what they feel is best for themselves but those high levels are not needed to benefit from trt.

 

[blitzen]

We tend to base things off more than 1x/wk injections on here bc it's working for so many people. In the real world docs have people on once per week if they have a clue. Most clinics do as well. 200/wk is going to put guys right around 900 at trough as an average. I've read results indicating as much, and the clinic I used for a while explained this to me. My own bloodwork was trending that way as we increased the dose.

I had relief from all symptoms doing 150/wk with a trough of 700, noticing the decline through the week. I do however feel better with a higher dose. Honestly not sure how common that is. Works for me though.

If you notice a decline through the week it might be an indicator for the need for more frequent injections. Your SHBG level can give you a starting point on the frequency.
Myself I did M/W/F 150mg a week T 918 FT 14 > change E3.5d 180mg week T 980 FT28 so 180mg is on the higher end for me but not unreasonable > other people get to the numbers with way less .... Having said this numbers are just one factor and not teh end all

 

[1Draw]

Roberto you paid for those labs so if it were me I’d tell the Dr you want a copy and post them here. I’d also find another DR. 2 mg Anastrozle week is crazy!

 

[Roberto_G]

Well my doctor is being somewhat unresponsive and looks like I won't be able to get the lab results until after Memorial Day weekend. I am going to pause the protocol though until I show you all the lab results and learn more about the overall process. From the responses so far it looks like it is the anastrozole that was causing the main problems / mood swings. Pardon my ignorance on the subject, but what are your opinions on HCG injections to prevent testicular atrophy and to keep the body producing natural testosterone. The vial I have to mix says it's 5000 IU, and prescribes a 500 unit sub-Q injection once a week. Are there alternatives to anastrozole? Or should I maybe break the tablets in half and lower the dosage? I do want to get muscle gains and quality of life improvements, but definitely need to learn more about how this works and not just trust the doctors blindly. Thanks again for all your input

 

[Roberto_G]

Roberto you paid for those labs so if it were me I’d tell the Dr you want a copy and post them here. I’d also find another DR. 2 mg Anastrozle week is crazy!

Yeah I'm gonna post the results as soon as I get them. Probably need to find another doctor eventually, though I'm hoping we can figure out a better regimen and I can keep purchasing from the same source. Do you recommend a good place to read up on this? Could I do without the anastrozole or lower the dosage? The day I took the 1mg tablet I had horrible mood swings. I'm worried that when I try the HCG that something similar might happen. It actually effected my work performance and coworker relationships to a degree, so that's not good at all.

 

[Deleted member 16042]

Re: HCG:

500 single dose per week will put you on an HCG roller coaster: https://www.excelmale.com/forum/sho...resents-two-case-studies&highlight=hcg+dosage

A lot more to chew on:
https://www.excelmale.com/forum/sho...e-and-Preserve-Fertility&highlight=hcg+dosage
https://www.excelmale.com/forum/showthread.php?9842-HCG-Dosage-Calculator&highlight=hcg+dosage
https://www.excelmale.com/forum/sho...-Some-Men-than-in-Others&highlight=hcg+dosage
https://www.excelmale.com/forum/sho...testosterone-replacement&highlight=hcg+dosage
https://www.excelmale.com/forum/sho...bout-HCG-Video-Interview&highlight=hcg+dosage



Re: T dosing starting out, 100mg/week is quite reasonable. When I went to injection at 150/wk I also went supraphysiological over 1500 total T and HCT was quick to follow, causing three dosage readjustments downward, and problems from the HCT. From this experience, I agree that 100mg total per week is a good starting point. Starting at 200mg is ludicrous for long term TRT and asking for trouble.

I also was put on a cookie cutter T plus aromatase inhibitor formula despite not having low E2 to start and it crashed my estrogen. Trust what people are telling you, You don't want to crash your E2 it is horrible and seriously dangerous. Bone loss is not something to F&*k with. There are too many potential side effects dosing too high.

Re: dosing T once a week, it depends entirely on your SHBG level. If you are a high SHBG guy It may be fine, but generally E3.5D, E3D or M/W/F are better/safer starting schedules. If you are low SHBG EOD or even daily dosing may be indicated.

 

[Deleted member 16042]

We tend to base things off more than 1x/wk injections on here bc it's working for so many people. In the real world docs have people on once per week if they have a clue. Most clinics do as well. 200/wk is going to put guys right around 900 at trough as an average. I've read results indicating as much, and the clinic I used for a while explained this to me. My own bloodwork was trending that way as we increased the dose.

I had relief from all symptoms doing 150/wk with a trough of 700, noticing the decline through the week. I do however feel better with a higher dose. Honestly not sure how common that is. Works for me though.

Because doctors and clinics do it does not make it right or good. So many people come to this forum with a range of problems due to high initial dosing including:

- a roller coaster ride due to weekly dosing
- being supraphysiological and feeling like dirt
- having E2 symptoms from Mood swings to weeping/crying, to depression, to swelling, bloating, nipple issues etc
- High HCT problems, elevated blood pressure

Starting someone at 200mg 1/week for long term TRT is ludicrous.

Buddy, I was on 150/wk and was over Labcorps assessable range i.e. over 1500 at trough, have been dealing with High HCT, PSA over 7 and now E2 symptoms are a problem. and as such, yes you can accuse me of being a moody b^&ch. LOL!

Start conservatively, give it 6 weeks, retest, adjust.

 

[Roberto_G]

Re: HCG:

500 single dose per week will put you on an HCG roller coaster: https://www.excelmale.com/forum/sho...resents-two-case-studies&highlight=hcg+dosage

A lot more to chew on:
https://www.excelmale.com/forum/sho...e-and-Preserve-Fertility&highlight=hcg+dosage
https://www.excelmale.com/forum/showthread.php?9842-HCG-Dosage-Calculator&highlight=hcg+dosage
https://www.excelmale.com/forum/sho...-Some-Men-than-in-Others&highlight=hcg+dosage
https://www.excelmale.com/forum/sho...testosterone-replacement&highlight=hcg+dosage
https://www.excelmale.com/forum/sho...bout-HCG-Video-Interview&highlight=hcg+dosage



Re: T dosing starting out, 100mg/week is quite reasonable. When I went to injection at 150/wk I also went supraphysiological over 1500 total T and HCT was quick to follow, causing three dosage readjustments downward, and problems from the HCT. From this experience, I agree that 100mg total per week is a good starting point. Starting at 200mg is ludicrous for long term TRT and asking for trouble.

I also was put on a cookie cutter T plus aromatase inhibitor formula despite not having low E2 to start and it crashed my estrogen. Trust what people are telling you, You don't want to crash your E2 it is horrible and seriously dangerous. Bone loss is not something to F&*k with. There are too many potential side effects dosing too high.

Re: dosing T once a week, it depends entirely on your SHBG level. If you are a high SHBG guy It may be fine, but generally E3.5D, E3D or M/W/F are better/safer starting schedules. If you are low SHBG EOD or even daily dosing may be indicated.

Awesome, thanks for the info. I'm gonna have to research for a while to better understand it. What are your opinions on natural estrogen detox or blockers, such as stinging nettle root or the extract of it's active ingredient, beta-sitosterol. Would they be safe to use along with TRT? maybe as a replacement for Anastrozole if I use smaller frequent doses of T (like 50mg 2-3x a week).

I had been using natural androgen boosters prior to trying out the TRT. Things like Pine Pollen extract, and tongkat ali extract. And coupling those with natural estrogen blockers and estrogen detoxing, with ingredients like stinging nettle and beta-sitosterol. The effects were good at first, but eventually seemed to wane, not sure if it was a placebo or if I was becoming immune to the effects of it.

I'm hesitant to continue with TRT as I don't want to mess things up, and it seems like a lot of blood work is needed to monitor my progress, which is something I'm not sure I can afford at the moment. It looks like frequent small dosing is ideal to large weekly doses, as far as maintaining optimal levels and reducing crashes. So I would have to order more syringes than I was supplied (no big deal).

Just weary at this point, after experiencing the e2 crash that most likely happened. In all likelihood, is experimenting with lower levels generally safe to where I could go off TRT if necessary without long term endocrine effects?

 

[Deleted member 16042]

Awesome, thanks for the info. I'm gonna have to research for a while to better understand it. What are your opinions on natural estrogen detox or blockers, such as stinging nettle root or the extract of it's active ingredient, beta-sitosterol. Would they be safe to use along with TRT? maybe as a replacement for Anastrozole if I use smaller frequent doses of T (like 50mg 2-3x a week).

I had been using natural androgen boosters prior to trying out the TRT. Things like Pine Pollen extract, and tongkat ali extract. And coupling those with natural estrogen blockers and estrogen detoxing, with ingredients like stinging nettle and beta-sitosterol. The effects were good at first, but eventually seemed to wane, not sure if it was a placebo or if I was becoming immune to the effects of it.

I'm hesitant to continue with TRT as I don't want to mess things up, and it seems like a lot of blood work is needed to monitor my progress, which is something I'm not sure I can afford at the moment. It looks like frequent small dosing is ideal to large weekly doses, as far as maintaining optimal levels and reducing crashes. So I would have to order more syringes than I was supplied (no big deal).

Just weary at this point, after experiencing the e2 crash that most likely happened. In all likelihood, is experimenting with lower levels generally safe to where I could go off TRT if necessary without long term endocrine effects?

Your dosing frequency depends entirely on your SHBG level.

LOL, I also tried everything including pine pollen and tongkat ali and here we both are resorting to TRT. Seems to me the same is true for stinging nettle and OTC supplements. If they worked that well, guys wouldn't be taking anastrazole. The only way to truly find out is try them and get your blood tested. I'd prefer starting on a reasonable dosage rather than taking high doses from the get go and having to deal with side effects


Yes, blood testing is par for the course and necessary. For me it has been a lot over the last year, but as things are getting better adjusted, it's every 12 weeks now instead of every 6 weeks. After things are dialed, it'll be more like every 6 months or a year. This company is owned by our host here at excelmale, and a lot of guys use this testing. look it over and get an idea of costs and read the info to get acquainted with the tests that are recommended/standard for TRT. https://www.discountedlabs.com/


"Experimenting" means doing 6 weeks on any given protocol, noting symptoms, getting a round of blood tests and the considering adjusting. The half life of T cyp means 40 days until you reach steady state on any given dose. trying to adjust dose prematurely is folly.

As far as being weary now, just realize it's for the long haul, and it can be a significant haul to get a protocol ironed out that's right for you for the long term.

Syringes are cheap. usually around $10-14 per hundred, that's 10-14 cents per. Just do a search here for buying syringes. I use allegromedical.com and buy these: https://www.allegromedical.com/syringes-c570/nipro-trueplus-insulin-syringe-with-needle-p574095.html The markings are a little less precise than some others, but I've had zero issues with them and they are sharper than others I have tried including easy touch and monoject.

Going off TRT after your HPTA pathway has shut down is going to take time to recover from. Not fun, but doable.

 

[Roberto_G]

Yes, blood testing is par for the course and necessary. For me it has been a lot over the last year, but as things are getting better adjusted, it's every 12 weeks now instead of every 6 weeks. After things are dialed, it'll be more like every 6 months or a year. This company is owned by our host here at excelmale, and a lot of guys use this testing. look it over and get an idea of costs and read the info to get acquainted with the tests that are recommended/standard for TRT. https://www.discountedlabs.com/

Hmm, sorry for all the questions. So $35 is the cost of the blood work? That changes everything, I paid $200 for my blood exam. More research to do. Thank you again for all the help and info

 

[OMI100]

E-2
"2mg anastrozole (1mg twice weekly)"....
Waaaaaaaay over the top.......
Verrrrrrrrry strong stuff.......
Read here:
http://www.peaktestosterone.com/Hdr_Estrogen.aspx
Get a few good books and educate yourself before you get screwed up beyond all recollection:
1. Get Nelsons book "Testosterone: A Mans Guide".
2. Get Lee Myer's book "Natural Versus Testosterone Therapy".
3. Get Testosterone for life - Dr.. Abraham Morgentaller .
4. Get The Definitive Testosterone Replacement Therapy MANual: How to Optimize Your Testosterone For Lifelong Health And Happiness by Jay Campbell.
As for HCG read here:
http://www.peaktestosterone.com/Hdr_HCG_SERMs.aspx

 

[Roberto_G]

E-2
"2mg anastrozole (1mg twice weekly)"....
Waaaaaaaay over the top.......
Verrrrrrrrry strong stuff.......
Read here:
http://www.peaktestosterone.com/Hdr_Estrogen.aspx
Get a few good books and educate yourself before you get screwed up beyond all recollection:
1. Get Nelsons book "Testosterone: A Mans Guide".
2. Get Lee Myer's book "Natural Versus Testosterone Therapy".
3. Get Testosterone for life - Dr.. Abraham Morgentaller .
4. Get The Definitive Testosterone Replacement Therapy MANual: How to Optimize Your Testosterone For Lifelong Health And Happiness by Jay Campbell.
As for HCG read here:
http://www.peaktestosterone.com/Hdr_HCG_SERMs.aspx

Yeah unfortunately I learned that the hard way... According to the link you posted and comments from other members, I crashed my E2 and need to let it recover. Kinda mad at the doctor, but I'm actually more mad at myself for trusting blindly and risking my health. I still have a brand new bottle of testosterone, and am thinking of taking much smaller doses 2-3x a week, like maybe 50mg twice or 35mg 3x. If anything, do you think using a modest testosterone regimen without using an AI could help replenish my e2 levels to where they need to be?