Failing TRT

[goga]

Hello,
I started TRT 11 weeks ago. My protocol is 35 mg of T Enanthate twice a week (Wednesday evening and Sunday morning). Initially I felt quite fine and even libido came earlier than expected (in 4 weeks). My lab results after 6 weeks (a few hours before next injection) were as follows:
FT 18.3 pg/ml (norm 5.01 -27.78)
T 18.13 nmol/L (norm 8.64--29)
LH 2.67 micU/ml (norm 1.7 - 8.6).

Then gradually I felt worse and gained weight. My morning erections became infrequent.

My test readings on the 11 th week 24 hours before the next injection for E2 is 49.3 (11.3-43.2).
I sill have to check T in a few days. I know E2 is not sensitive and is sort of unreliable, but I think it still shows some correlation in the Estradiol level. And I feel like I have an Estradiol excess.

I am puzzled. I dont inject much. I split it into two parts. Why is it that?

Before TRT I had had primary T deficiency with elevated LH (25) low T (8.8) and low FT (8.5).

 

[Deleted member 42882]

I've only done the sensitive test once. I did the standard test at the same time, and they were virtually the same result. Will never pay to do the sensitive again.

 

[Systemlord]

Initially I felt quite fine and even libido came earlier than expected (in 4 weeks). My lab results after 6 weeks (a few hours before next injection) were as follows:
FT 18.3 pg/ml (norm 5.01 -27.78)
T 18.13 nmol/L (norm 8.64--29)
LH 2.67 micU/ml (norm 1.7 - 8.6).

Then gradually I felt worse and gained weight. My morning erections became infrequent.

TRT can be challenging for some men, as some are sensitive to injection frequency and or dosage large or small.

You might want to check thyroid hormones.

How is your sleep?

Are you exercising?

 

[DS3]

Hello,
I started TRT 11 weeks ago. My protocol is 35 mg of T Enanthate twice a week (Wednesday evening and Sunday morning). Initially I felt quite fine and even libido came earlier than expected (in 4 weeks). My lab results after 6 weeks (a few hours before next injection) were as follows:
FT 18.3 pg/ml (norm 5.01 -27.78)
T 18.13 nmol/L (norm 8.64--29)
LH 2.67 micU/ml (norm 1.7 - 8.6).

Then gradually I felt worse and gained weight. My morning erections became infrequent.

My test readings on the 11 th week 24 hours before the next injection for E2 is 49.3 (11.3-43.2).
I sill have to check T in a few days. I know E2 is not sensitive and is sort of unreliable, but I think it still shows some correlation in the Estradiol level. And I feel like I have an Estradiol excess.

I am puzzled. I dont inject much. I split it into two parts. Why is it that?

Before TRT I had had primary T deficiency with elevated LH (25) low T (8.8) and low FT (8.5).

Long esterified versions of testosterone have always given me subjective and objectives symptoms of high estrogen. I only tolerate short preparations such as testosterone propionate. Your journey to finding a solution may prove different, but this is what I have found.

 

[Systemlord]

I only tolerate short preparations such as testosterone propionate.

Same here, I never tolerated enanthate or cypionate and required daily or every other day injections to respond to therapy.

I used to think high estrogen was the bogeyman, it was causing none of my symptoms.

It took me years to figure out I needed short half-life formulations of TRT.

Thank God for Jatenzo! Dialing in only requires dosage increases, or decreases and eliminates having to figure out dosing frequency as it’s taken orally twice daily.

 

[goga]

I would ideally avoid injecting daily/EOD and AI. May Estradiol reduce on its own with time. Its just 70 mg of T weekly.

 

[sammmy]

At 6 weeks, your natural production was still not suppressed - your LH is still in range - so you were still in the "honeymoon period".

Then it ended and now you are running purely on external testosterone, that's why you feel different.

 

[goga]

I have received FT results from the same date I have E2 (not sensitive):

FT 24.1 pg/ml (5.01-27.78)
Estradiol 49.3 pg/ml (11.3-43.2).

These were taken 24 hours before next injection (lab was closed the next day). I'm on the 11th week of TRT. I inject 35mg twice a week. I have gained weight and libido/morning erections are moderate at best.

Do you think SubQ may reduce Estradiol? How to lower e2. I already inject a low dosage.

 

[Systemlord]

Do you think SubQ may reduce Estradiol?

SQ can reduce estrogen, but can also increase estrogen is certain individuals. It can take a couple of months for your body to adapt to TRT with regards to the increases in water weight, which is where I believe your symptoms are coming from.

How to lower e2.

Inject smaller more frequent doses and or lose weight. If you’re the guy that is not exercising and waiting around for TRT to do all the work, your results may be subpar moving forward.

TRT is a tool to achieve a healthy mind and body.

 

[goga]

SQ can reduce estrogen, but can also increase estrogen is certain individuals. It can take a couple of months for your body to adapt to TRT with regards to the increases in water weight, which is where I believe your symptoms are coming from.

Inject smaller more frequent doses and or lose weight. If you’re the guy that is not exercising and waiting around for TRT to do all the work, your results may be subpar moving forward.

TRT is a tool to achieve a healthy mind and body.

Would you lower weekly total as well? Well I may try say 20 mg EOD

 

[Willyt]

Would you lower weekly total as well? Well I may try say 20 mg EOD

What was your TT at week 11? It looks like the external T has continued to stack from your week 6 test

 

[goga]

What was your TT at week 11? It looks like the external T has continued to stack from your week 6 test

I have not checked TT after week 6

 

[goga]

Now I need a guidance. Let me remind you I have been on TRT for about 4 months now. I began with 35 mg twice a week on Enathate. As my Estradiol (regular one, not sensitive) was above the limit, and my Free T was great, I decided to go for EOD 17.5 mg, which is just 60 mg a week! It cant be less, right?
Yet my results after 2 weeks on EOD 17.5 mg are as follows:
FT 27.8 pg/ml (norm 5-27.8);
LH 1.41 MicU/ml (1.7-8.6);
T 28.6 nmol/L (8.6-32.9)
Estradiol 45.7 pg/ml (11-43)

Strange, isn't it? Sensitive E test is not available, but I have some ginecomastia, high blood pressure, some water retention, cant lose weight as easily as before, libido is average.

What are your suggestions? I am about to question whether I needed TRT at all : )

But I had T deficiency issues, poor erections, poor libido and both my FT and T were 8 - a very low figure. Moving from twice a day to EOD did not make much changes.

Your feedback is very much appreciated.

It seems I need much less T.

 

[Belekas]

Yeah it seems you can cut back on the dose and see how you feel and perform there. When I tried EOD dosing I felt like a hot pile of crap lol so def individual and not for everyone. How are you feeling now in regards to all your mentioned pre-TRT symptoms?

 

[goga]

Yeah it seems you can cut back on the dose and see how you feel and perform there. When I tried EOD dosing I felt like a hot pile of crap lol so def individual and not for everyone. How are you feeling now in regards to all your mentioned pre-TRT symptoms?

Well, before TRT I had had lower libido and poor erections. From that point of view, I feel better. I don't know, whether it is the best I can achieve. But, as you see, Ts and E2 are too high and seem to cancel each other...

 

[Belekas]

Well, before TRT I had had lower libido and poor erections. From that point of view, I feel better. I don't know, whether it is the best I can achieve. But, as you see, Ts and E2 are too high and seem to cancel each other...

So I'd think either a dose reduction or something to lower your E2 and see how you feel. Personally, I'd go with the dose reduction first as your levels are right at the top of the range. What is best only you can find out by doing the work yourself. Trial and error.

 

[Willyt]

As my Estradiol (regular one, not sensitive) was above the limit, and my Free T was great, I decided to go for EOD 17.5 mg, which is just 60 mg a week! It cant be less, right?

There are a number of us dosing around 50mg per week so you would not be alone!

Also, after only two weeks, you are probably still feeling effects of original dosing. Like @Belekas mentioned, knock down dose slightly maybe to 8mg per day. If you don't mind EOD, might as well try ED. Just couple of minutes every morning. Might even out the E2 a little.

 

[goga]

Let me repost it. I need to hear what the others think about it:
Now I need a guidance. Let me remind you I have been on TRT for about 4 months now. I began with 35 mg twice a week on Enathate. As my Estradiol (regular one, not sensitive) was above the limit, and my Free T was great, I decided to go for EOD 17.5 mg, which is just 60 mg a week! It cant be less, right?
Yet my results after 2 weeks on EOD 17.5 mg are as follows:
FT 27.8 pg/ml (norm 5-27.8);
LH 1.41 MicU/ml (1.7-8.6);
T 28.6 nmol/L (8.6-32.9)
Estradiol 45.7 pg/ml (11-43)

Strange, isn't it? Sensitive E test is not available, but I have some ginecomastia, high blood pressure, some water retention, cant lose weight as easily as before, libido is average.

What are your suggestions? I am about to question whether I needed TRT at all : )

But I had T deficiency issues, poor erections, poor libido and both my FT and T were 8 - a very low figure. Moving from twice a day to EOD did not make much changes.

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[Simbarn]

Let me repost it. I need to hear what the others think about it:
Now I need a guidance. Let me remind you I have been on TRT for about 4 months now. I began with 35 mg twice a week on Enathate. As my Estradiol (regular one, not sensitive) was above the limit, and my Free T was great, I decided to go for EOD 17.5 mg, which is just 60 mg a week! It cant be less, right?
Yet my results after 2 weeks on EOD 17.5 mg are as follows:
FT 27.8 pg/ml (norm 5-27.8);
LH 1.41 MicU/ml (1.7-8.6);
T 28.6 nmol/L (8.6-32.9)
Estradiol 45.7 pg/ml (11-43)

Strange, isn't it? Sensitive E test is not available, but I have some ginecomastia, high blood pressure, some water retention, cant lose weight as easily as before, libido is average.

What are your suggestions? I am about to question whether I needed TRT at all : )

But I had T deficiency issues, poor erections, poor libido and both my FT and T were 8 - a very low figure. Moving from twice a day to EOD did not make much changes.

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Yes, your dose can still be lowered. If it were me, I may have stuck with the twice weekly injections so as to avoid changing to many variables at once and just concentrated on lowering the dose further first, to see if your symptoms improved.
It is interesting to see that you are still producing some LH. This may be due to the fact you were producing very high levels of LH before TRT. It would seem you were suffering from primary hypogonadism, which is a failure of the testes to produce enough testosterone.

 

[Deleted member 16042]

Let me repost it. I need to hear what the others think about it:
Now I need a guidance. Let me remind you I have been on TRT for about 4 months now. I began with 35 mg twice a week on Enathate. As my Estradiol (regular one, not sensitive) was above the limit, and my Free T was great, I decided to go for EOD 17.5 mg, which is just 60 mg a week! It cant be less, right?
Yet my results after 2 weeks on EOD 17.5 mg are as follows:
FT 27.8 pg/ml (norm 5-27.8);
LH 1.41 MicU/ml (1.7-8.6);
T 28.6 nmol/L (8.6-32.9)
Estradiol 45.7 pg/ml (11-43)

Strange, isn't it? Sensitive E test is not available, but I have some ginecomastia, high blood pressure, some water retention, cant lose weight as easily as before, libido is average.

What are your suggestions? I am about to question whether I needed TRT at all : )

But I had T deficiency issues, poor erections, poor libido and both my FT and T were 8 - a very low figure. Moving from twice a day to EOD did not make much changes.

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I would not worry at all about your T levels. But with the symptoms you have, yeah E2 may be pushing it.

I am on 4:3 ratio T cyp to prop, combined it's 8mg daily including ester weight. That's 56mg/week. doing well. Feels good. E2 in good range I really like the daily swing from the prop. The injections are so tiny, every day is easy. I do them while my coffee is dripping.

The protocol was dreamed up by @Cataceous, and I think @Willyt has done it too.