Experience with penile phoenix acoustic shockwave device at home

[Nelson Vergel]

Full Paper Attached for Registered Members


Current guideline recommendations and analysis of evidence quality on low-intensity shockwave therapy for erectile dysfunction
Schoofs, Esther ; Fode, Mikkel ; Capogrosso, Paolo ; Albersen, Maarten
International journal of impotence research, 2019, Vol.31 (3), p.209-217

Erectile dysfunction (ED) is defined as the inability to attain and maintain erection of the penis sufficient to permit satisfactory sexual activity. ED most commonly affects men from 40 years of age with a clear age-associated increase in prevalence. The condition may have significant negative impact on quality of life for both the patients and their partners. Over recent years, low-intensity shockwave therapy (LIST) has gained popularity in the treatment of ED, based on the assumption that LIST application may result in neoangiogenesis and thus increased blood flow to the corpora cavernosa. The increasing usage of LIST is contrasting with current guidelines, with the EAU guideline on ED stating that LIST can be used in mild organic ED patients or poor responders to PDE5I's, but with a weak strength of recommendation. In the AUA guideline on ED, the panel makes a conditional recommendation of grade C that LIST should be considered investigational. In this review, we will briefly review practice patterns, and critically discuss the evidence based on which these guideline statements have been made.

 

[Ark11]

GainsWave claims to be "FDA approved" but this is merely a post-marlet clearance that could be revoked at any time because it is not based on pre-market clinical trials. Many low to moderate risk devices get the same kind of clearance, but there is no guarantee they are efficacious (or truly safe) based on genuine clinical pre-market evidence.

 

[Ark11]

Nelson, I didn't see the name of the device being used in the studies you linked to but I know that a couple of the authors have used the same device I used. i am happy to name it if you want me to. I did not do so because I don't want to appear to be promoting a particular product.

 

[Ark11]

Li-ESWT is not currently approved by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration and is considered investigational in the United States. However, it is currently available to patients under clinical trial protocols and it is important to understand the basic physics of shockwaves to understand the differences between the different shockwave devices. Not all are created equal.

 

[Ark11]

in other words what you get with the non-clinically tested devices is who knows what?

 

[Nelson Vergel]

Nelson, I didn't see the name of the device being used in the studies you linked to but I know that a couple of the authors have used the same device I used. i am happy to name it if you want me to. I did not do so because I don't want to appear to be promoting a particular product.

Sure! Go ahead. If you liked it. Tell us how much you paid, please.

 

[Nelson Vergel]

Shockwave Therapy for ED: Miracle or Hype? | Li-ESWT

Alan W. Shindel, MD, MAS, explains the science behind low intensity shock wave therapy and its potential use in the management of ED.

grandroundsinurology.com

 

[Nelson Vergel]

Low-Intensity Shockwave Therapy for Erectile Dysfunction
Sex Med Rev
. 2018 Oct;6(4):624-630. doi: 10.1016/j.sxmr.2018.01.002. Epub 2018 Mar 22.

Abstract

Background: Vasculogenic erectile dysfunction (ED) is one of the leading causes of male sexual dysfunction. In the past decade, multiple studies have examined the use of low-intensity extracorporeal shockwave therapy (Li-ESWT) for the treatment of ED.

Aim: Investigate the efficacy of Li-ESWT for the treatment of ED.

Methods: We reviewed the published literature, including randomized controlled trials (RCTs), meta-analyses, and select single-arm studies on the use of Li-ESWT for the treatment of ED.

Outcomes: Changes in International Index of Erectile Function scores were evaluated in patients undergoing Li-ESWT.

Results: There is no consensus from RCTs on the efficacy of Li-ESWT for the treatment of ED. Published meta-analyses have shown significant improvement in International Index of Erectile Function-erectile function domain scores in men undergoing Li-ESWT, especially when compared to men receiving sham treatment. However, differences in treatment protocols limit the generalizability of these findings. Li-ESWT may be more beneficial in cases of mild ED or when combined with phosphodiesterase type 5 inhibitors in men with moderate to severe ED. The role of Li-ESWT in the treatment of non-vasculogenic ED remains poorly defined.

Conclusions: Li-ESWT could be beneficial in specific sub-sets of men with vasculogenic ED. However, future RCTs should attempt to optimize treatment protocols and have more stringent inclusion criteria to confirm these findings. Rizk PJ, Krieger JR, Kohn TP, et al.
Low-Intensity Shockwave Therapy for Erectile Dysfunction. Sex Med Rev 2018;6:624-630.

Keywords: Erectile Dysfunction; Low-Intensity Shockwave Therapy; Shockwave; Vascular.


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[DorianGray]

Sure! Go ahead. If you liked it. Tell us how much you paid, please.

@Ark11 Very interested in the device you had treatment with also.

 

[DorianGray]

Shockwave Therapy for ED: Miracle or Hype? | Li-ESWT

Alan W. Shindel, MD, MAS, explains the science behind low intensity shock wave therapy and its potential use in the management of ED.

grandroundsinurology.com

It appears he is in same urology group at UCSF as Tom Lue, a pioneer in investigational sexual medicine and these devices. I may pursue an appointment.

 

[kroorda]

Heard a few people talk about it (including few on these forums), so I bought the GetMyPhoenix (formerly GetMyRocket) phoenix acoustic device for home use to do shockwave therapy, because of it's low cost compared to shockwave sessions in a clinic, and because of the 30 day return policy. I assume they'll honor that policy but if not, I purchased it with a credit card anyways so I can try disputing if needed.

I've tried 4 sessions already with this acoustic shockwave device. So far, no good results. However, many other big names seem to give it great reviews (one even close to the TRT community). Of course, they could just be looking for commission from sales, but I figured I'd at least try it with good return policy, just incase it really is something.

I'll reserve my review/judgement until I've done 12 sessions within the 30 day return policy window. It is suggested in some studies that one should do 6-12 treatments first.

I'm wondering if anyone else had experiences with at home shockwave devices, and how was it?

Hello Sir, I am in the same (ED) position as you and I am interested in this product. However, when I read their guarantee closely, it says that they will pay the cost of return shipping. It does not say that they will refund the cost of the device if it doesn't work. When I see deceptive 'terminology' such as that, I become very skeptical. Like any product, (vitamins, supplements, food blenders, shoes for sore feet and many others), i believe that, if the product was/is so great, it would be on the nightly news, all over the internet and it would be the talk of the town. In the case of this device, it would also be used by urologists and clinics who claim to help men with ED. But, none of those things are common with this device.

 

[Nelson Vergel]

I tried it. Too loud and too much work. Don’t spend your money on it and the shockwave stuff clinics sell. Spend your money on ED drugs and Trimix.

 

[Ribeye]

I haven’t seen anywhere that the device’s specifications are listed so that anyone can make a comparison. Any device in a clinical setting clearly spells this out in product information and on public web sites. A legitimate product has nothing to hide and the details are important because the studies showing efficacy used specific pressures and frequencies.

The phoenix/rocket web site is cleverly worded. If you read the information and the FAQs closely, you will notice that they reference “acoustic wave technology” and they would be correct in that there is data showing its effectiveness. No where on their own site do they say that their own product is effective or that it even works in treating ED. It’s always the technology or the science that is effective and proven in the text. None of the numerous studies linked in the web site use the rocket/phoenix device even though they (probably intentionally) read as though implied.

These nice people figured out how to take a $70k device and make it affordable at home for every man at only $700? And at the same time they reduced the size so that it easily fits in your hand instead of sitting on a cart. Guys, it’s a scam. Get your money back while you can.

You would have to get the device information from the FDA. It is registered and public information if you know where to go to get it.

 

[KevinS]

I just received in my spam email an ad for a shockwave therapy device - have found a similar looking device online anywhere from around 3 to $800. From the thread it appears that these don't work so well or for only certain situations ?

These also appear to have uses for skeletal muscular and joint pain - do they work for that? Knee/hip/shoulder injuries.

At this point I'd if it didn't work for my ED, maybe it would help with my joint pain? any experiences ?

Thank you

 

[MarkFairfield]

I thought of getting one to after Jay Cambell’s podcast on it. I assume he’s the guy “close to the TRT community” of which you speak. I looked into it and even at the discounted price it seemed iffy. I decided to wait and am glad I did. Campbell used to be the go to guy on things like this, but for the past year has been full of hyperbole and conspiracy theories, even criticizing members of this forum. A lot more research needs to take place with actual clinical trials before These are truly legit. The promotion of these say that you still may need Viagra anyway, so that tells you something right there.

 

[KGB197]

Cambell initially was a reliable source but has turned into an over the top hyped shill anything for money guy. The Rocket is a shady company that can't seem to get their act together.