Estrogen still too high on IM

[GerryGerrison]

I'm guessing you would respond with an aromatase inhibitor? That is like the last ditch option for me. I'm 27, and am trying to limit the amount of medicine I'm on since it will be for the next 50-60 years. I lowered my dose of test, and am now on 44mg instead of 50. I will change nothing else before I get bloods again in 4 weeks.

Has anybody here had success in controlling e2 that wasn't super elevated with things like zinc?

Also I am busting my ass to lose body fat, but can't find any concrete evidence as to whether that truly impacts estrogen conversion. I will say that I do carry my fat around the chest and hips, and would look like a pear if I didn't also have as much muscle as I do. I'm in pretty damn good shape strength wise,cardio isn't what it used to be but isn't bad either and I'm working on improving it, but I'm at 19-20% bodyfat. So that can definitely come down.

 

[GerryGerrison]

I responded the same way with HCG and even did the whole AI. Which just made things worse. I then went to daily HCG injections of only 50iu a day and it has been working well

What are the other details of your protocol, and what about age, body fat, time on trt, etc?

I would imagine HCG works strongly in me because it makes my testes tingle quite a bit, but thats just subjective and basically conjecture.

 

[GerryGerrison]

You asked about HCG and estradiol. The former can elevate the latter. Does it increase "a lot" in those men who are sensitive to it? Enough to be a factor. For many men, your level of e2 is not really that high. But if symptoms are driving this, and you have a lab result that does put you out of range, I would not respond to it by lowering my HCG dose.

So what exactly would you have me do?

 

[CoastWatcher]

So what exactly would you have me do?

When I had a sensitive estradiol come in at 55, injecting 60mg every 3.5 days, and felt some of the symptoms that elevated e2 can generate, I went to daily injections of 16mg of testosterone. In a month my estradiol slid into the upper 20s and has floated between the high 20s low 30s for two years. Total testosterone is in the upper 900s, occasionally a value over 1000 has been noted. During this time I have continued to inject HCG, 250, twice weekly. It was clear an AI would have worked, but I wanted to avoid another prescriptive element in my protocol if I could. It was also true that my low SHBG would respond well to smaller doses administered more frequently. It should be noted that while still a small group, very small, more guys here at EM are going to a daily schedule. Will this work for you? I would hope so, but a good friend here didn't see the desired change in e2 he was looking for; it's TRT and it's a different journey for all of us.

If daily injections seem daunting, and I have never found them to be difficult, you could move to an eod schedule.

 

[GerryGerrison]

When I had a sensitive estradiol come in at 55, injecting 60mg every 3.5 days, and felt some of the symptoms that elevated e2 can generate, I went to daily injections of 16mg of testosterone. In a month my estradiol slid into the upper 20s and has floated between the high 20s low 30s for two years. Total testosterone is in the upper 900s, occasionally a value over 1000 has been noted. During this time I have continued to inject HCG, 250, twice weekly. It was clear an AI would have worked, but I wanted to avoid another prescriptive element in my protocol if I could. It was also true that my low SHBG would respond well to smaller doses administered more frequently.

If daily injections seem daunting, and I have never found them to be difficult, you could move to an eod schedule.

Thank you for your advice. I will be re doing blood work after another 4 weeks on the 44mg twice a week protocol. Looking to see if dropping my body fat will have a significant effect on aromatase or not. The combo of dropping dose and cutting carbs down to under 100mg a day has brought about quite a bit of water weight loss already. I am also no longer feeling extremely weepy and fatigue/brain fog has gotten slightly better. However, I am not sure if 44mg will be enough to keep my test high enough, and will be able to tell once I get the next set of bloods. On the 50mg (before estro creeped up) I was feeling awesome, mood was stable, honestly felt like I haven't in years. So I know that TRT is the answer for me, just have to get properly dialed in and manage my estrogen correctly.

While ED injections do not sound amazing, I would rather go that route than using an AI. If estro prevents me from raising test to a proper level I will give the ED injections a go. Thanks again .

 

[CoastWatcher]

Thank you for your advice. I will be re doing blood work after another 4 weeks on the 44mg twice a week protocol. Looking to see if dropping my body fat will have a significant effect on aromatase or not. The combo of dropping dose and cutting carbs down to under 100mg a day has brought about quite a bit of water weight loss already. I am also no longer feeling extremely weepy and fatigue/brain fog has gotten slightly better. However, I am not sure if 44mg will be enough to keep my test high enough, and will be able to tell once I get the next set of bloods. On the 50mg (before estro creeped up) I was feeling awesome, mood was stable, honestly felt like I haven't in years. So I know that TRT is the answer for me, just have to get properly dialed in and manage my estrogen correctly.

While ED injections do not sound amazing, I would rather go that route than using an AI. If estro prevents me from raising test to a proper level I will give the ED injections a go. Thanks again .

You're very welcome. Look at the daily idea, or every other day, in this way. With the right needle and the improved dexterity that comes with frequent injections, the whole process can be over and done in a moment or two. Load your dose the night before, wake, walk to bathroom, alcohol swab, inject. It really can be that simple. An insulin needle means even less stress.

Good luck with this. Keep us posted.

 

[GerryGerrison]

You're very welcome. Look at the daily idea, or every other day, in this way. With the right needle and the improved dexterity that comes with frequent injections, the whole process can be over and done in a moment or two. Load your dose the night before, wake, walk to bathroom, alcohol swab, inject. It really can be that simple. An insulin needl means even less stress.

God oof luck with this. Keep us posted.

Already have the 27g insulin needles so no problem there, just need to get quicker/better with delt injections, quads are fine. Maybe even drop to 29g if its ED, also loading the night before seems like a good idea as well.

Change of school schedule will allow me to be systematic in my approach and no more going off of feel, even if I am pretty confident in my ability to sense high/low estro lol . My goal is to be dialed in by the end May, but do realize it could take longer than that. I will post updates when I have them.

 

[madman]

Thank you for your advice. I will be re doing blood work after another 4 weeks on the 44mg twice a week protocol. Looking to see if dropping my body fat will have a significant effect on aromatase or not. The combo of dropping dose and cutting carbs down to under 100mg a day has brought about quite a bit of water weight loss already. I am also no longer feeling extremely weepy and fatigue/brain fog has gotten slightly better. However, I am not sure if 44mg will be enough to keep my test high enough, and will be able to tell once I get the next set of bloods. On the 50mg (before estro creeped up) I was feeling awesome, mood was stable, honestly felt like I haven't in years. So I know that TRT is the answer for me, just have to get properly dialed in and manage my estrogen correctly.

While ED injections do not sound amazing, I would rather go that route than using an AI. If estro prevents me from raising test to a proper level I will give the ED injections a go. Thanks again .

Regarding bringing down e2#s lowering body fat may help but some people are just naturally high aromatizers even lean individuals, blame genetics!

 

[GerryGerrison]

Regarding bringing down e2#s lowering body fat may help but some people are just naturally high aromatizers even lean individuals, blame genetics!

Yea I'm aware that it could be genetic. I'm hoping that it isn't, but only time will tell.