EOD vs twice weekly Sustanon fluctuation could be the key

[M.J]

I posted this in another thread, maybe it is helpful:
Active Half Life of Sustanon is between 15-18 days so if you need 5 half life cycles to get to 96% serum saturation, testing would be at a minimum after 75 days or 10-11 weeks.

Because of the multi-ester each ester on its own will reach saturation after its 5x half life so for Sustanon that would be:
ester(% of Sustanon) = serum saturation time
Tprop(12%)=10 days
Tphen(24%)=22.5 days
Tisoc (24%)=45 days
Tdeca (40%)=75 days
(Multi-ester = multi-honeymoon....lol)

The molecular weight of Sustanon is .7 so 100mg a week would be 70mg unestrified Test at full saturation, although its not that simple as each ester also has each its own molecular weight so at different half life times you will have different esters releasing their % of 100mg T.
Tprop(.837)= 10.004mg
Tphen(.686)= 16.464mg
Tisoc (.746)= 17.904mg
Tdeca(.652)= 26.080mg

Wow this is serious,,, I have noticed I am going really high with my dose, for example my 100mg takes my level to ( trough 25 nmol) so I am going higher than normal ranges.

but Iam taking also HCG EOD in my experience I think it’s adding 15 nmol as this is what I got when I was on it alone.
In both cases I will consider reducing the dose soon I just don’t want to break this protocol now giving it its time.

 

[M.J]

I skipped one injection this week and surprise surprise I felt really good skipping that injection. Today I woke up with morning wood.
So Today I took my second weekly injection, let’s see if I can get something starting from it.

I feel there is potential in this sustanon you need to play around a bit in it, looking forward to try once weekly could be something !

 

[M.J]

It Worked very well,I skipped one injection and when I took the second injection I had increased in libido, morning wood also yesterday and today!

this protocol is amazing, I will see how long this libido will stay I guess it’s the prop doing this.

 

[Rock H. Johnson]

Yes, my protocol is based on continious change..... never a dull day, I say.

 

[M.J]

Yes, my protocol is based on continious change..... never a dull day, I say.

I am guessing prop is doing this as I see results the same and next day of injection. Let’s see how long it last.

 

[Dcalicotte03]

Well, I planned on starting this soon but bc the whole covid-19 thing, I’ve decided to wait on buying any UG test

 

[M.J]

After skipping one injection got some medium morning wood for the last 5 days.

does it mean if I skipped two injection it would be even stronger ?
is it the change or maybe moving to once a week would be better ?

great potential in this sustanon.

 

[M.J]

So after all this time on sustanon I have to say I enjoyed the ride, however libido in getting less crazy after time, no surprise as things are stabilizing yet again better than EOD.

moving to once weekly soon. If twice weekly was better I wonder what we happen if I increased the fluctuation/speed With once weekly!

I have to restart first. Will do clomid soon.

 

[Dcalicotte03]

Thank you for staying dedicated to this thread

 

[M.J]

I have been in clomid 25mg daily and hcg 500 eod, to restart and redo the same protocol( since the plan to get my wife pregnant) Interestingly I am having high libido and daily morning wood since I started this Restart protocol. ! It’s been very enjoyable I will not start the protocol if my results will stay as they are !

 

[M.J]

Well I am back on 50 mg twice a week after I stopped for almost 40 days.

first two injection nothing happened, didn’t repeat that high libido. I will stay on this for the next few month and report how it goes.

again it was better than EOD but really thinking to do something with higher fluctuation like cream or natesto.
Also I don’t need to worry about hematocrit with those I guess.

 

[M.J]

libido came up again, in the past few days and still up, I will try is reduce the 40 day gap, even in those 40 days I went through a another honey moon, not sure if it was hcg or cuz I just went off.
I will try reducing the 40 day gap and also try once weekly Future plans.

 

[M.J]

Ok still playing around in dosage, reaching same conclusion. I can get more than one honey moon with this, trying once weekly now. But I am trying to use testosterone cream. Hopefully I get it soon.

 

[Cooper]

Ok still playing around in dosage, reaching same conclusion. I can get more than one honey moon with this, trying once weekly now. But I am trying to use testosterone cream. Hopefully I get it soon.

Did you ever get on the cream?

 

[M.J]

Did you ever get on the cream?

Not really we don’t have cream where I live, I will buy it from outside once traveling is allowed.

 

[M.J]

Just to update this thread, I have moved to 100mg once weekly for the past two month maybe 3 month.

I have yet to confirm this but morning wood seems daily. I will wait more to see if it will go away or not. Even when I stopped citrullin I still have it.

I still think both twice weekly and once weekly are better much better than EOD.Better as libido and erection plus more convenient. Once weekly could be even better honestly. Have to wait more and see.

If fluctuation such as this is the reason, then Stronger fluctuations caused by cream could be much better.

 

[M.J]

Update :
I shifted today from 100mg once a week. Which was way better than EOD.
With 100mg once weekly these are my readings, around 55 nmol/L, and my trough one day before injection (night before) 25 nmol/L

I reduced my injections to 75mg once weekly to get a bit lower range maybe 12 to 43.

over all I felt I was on 40% to 60% range. back on EOD I would say it was more like 10% to 15%.
Yet I am not close to honey moon periods which I would rank at 100%.

 

[M.J]

Regarding morning wood on 100mg it was ok at least I actually had some, sometimes strong others are ok”I am guessing the strong times could be related to honey moon periods” but not like EOD which was Zeroooooo nothing at all.

this also confirms that once weekly was better. I guess fluctuations could be a key here.

 

[madman]

Update :
I shifted today from 100mg once a week. Which was way better than EOD.
With 100mg once weekly these are my readings, around 55 nmol/L, and my trough one day before injection (night before) 25 nmol/L

I reduced my injections to 75mg once weekly to get a bit lower range maybe 12 to 43.

over all I felt I was on 40% to 60% range. back on EOD I would say it was more like 10% to 15%.
Yet I am not close to honey moon periods which I would rank at 100%.

This is the main issue in many cases when injecting once weekly as the peak will be very high 8-12 hrs post-injection, levels will be elevated a few days after, and by weeks end will be much lower sometimes resulting in too low of a trough depending on the dose, TT/SHBG.

This can have a negative impact on energy/mood/libido/erectile function/recovery.

Testosterone levels will not be as stable throughout the week as when injecting daily or EOD.

Some men do like the wide swing in hormones from injecting higher doses once weekly but for many, it can cause issues.

You are most likely hitting a true peak (8-12 hr post-injection) of 1586+ ng/dL (+55 nmol/L) and as you can see your trough although not true trough as you tested 12-24 hrs before your injection was much lower 721 ng/dL (25 nmol/L).

Mind you I would be more concerned with the FT level and depending on your TT/ SHBG it may very well be high at the trough (weeks end).

If it is what works best for you then stick with it.

Keep in mind that it is doubtful you will ever truly mimic the honeymoon period one may experience when starting trt or tweaking protocol (dose/injection frequency).

The surge in dopamine and rise in androgen levels is temporary and once levels stabilize the body will eventually adapt to those new levels (become the new norm).

Let alone we are in no way mimicking the natural 24 hr circadian rhythm of a healthy young male.

Even with once-weekly injections, you are only going to experience a surge in levels for a few days every week.

Much more involved than just the dose/injection frequency as the hpta is shut down which may very well have long term consequences on overall health/well-being.

Is HCG is still needed?

I been on TRT for a 5 months when I first started I was on hcg now is has run out. I don't feel any different from when I was on it. Is hcg needed?

www.excelmale.com

*The documented differences in steroid profiles on testosterone replacement in hypogonadal males with absent or severely reduced endogenous LH and FSH secretion may have long term consequences for health and wellbeing. Specifically, body composition, bone health, glucose, and lipid metabolism, salt and water balance, cognition, mood, sleep, and sexual function could be affected.

 

[M.J]

This is the main issue in many cases when injecting once weekly as the peak will be very high 8-12 hrs post-injection, levels will be elevated a few days after, and by weeks end will be much lower sometimes resulting in too low of a trough depending on the dose T/SHBG.

This can have a negative impact on energy/mood/libido/erectile function/recovery.

Testosterone levels will not be as stable throughout the week as when injecting daily or EOD.

Some men do like the wide swing in hormones from injecting higher doses once weekly but for many, it can cause issues.

You are most likely hitting a true peak (8-12 hr post-injection) of 1586+ ng/dL (+55 nmol/L) and as you can see your trough although not true trough as you tested 12-24 hrs before your injection was much lower 721 ng/dL (25 nmol/L).

Mind you I would be more concerned with the FT level and depending on your SHBG it may very well be high at the trough (weeks end).

If it is what works best for you then stick with it.

Keep in mind that it is doubtful you will ever truly mimic the honeymoon period one may experience when starting trt or tweaking protocol (dose/injection frequency).

The surge in dopamine and rise in androgen levels is temporary and once levels stabilize the body will eventually adapt to those new levels (become the new norm).

Let alone we are in no way mimicking the natural 24 hr circadian rhythm of a healthy young male.

Even with once-weekly injections, you are only going to experience a surge in levels for a few days every week.

Much more involved than just the dose/injection frequency as the hpta is shut down which may very well have long term consequences on overall health/well-being.

Is HCG is still needed?

I been on TRT for a 5 months when I first started I was on hcg now is has run out. I don't feel any different from when I was on it. Is hcg needed?

www.excelmale.com

*The documented differences in steroid profiles on testosterone replacement in hypogonadal males with absent or severely reduced endogenous LH and FSH secretion may have long term consequences for health and wellbeing. Specifically, body composition, bone health, glucose, and lipid metabolism, salt and water balance, cognition, mood, sleep, and sexual function could be affected.

Thanks mad man, as everybody else I will give everything a try and see what may work best, I really want to try the cream but not available here unfortunately. Will try to get it once traveling is allowed again.