current protocol not working feel terrible

[nurselyfe]

Had a bad estrogen crash using arimidex that I explained in another thread. Finally stop self medicating and went to a good TRT doctor and he prescribed me 60mg Test C E3.5D, 300IU Hcg E3.5D, and .25mg arimidex 24 hours after my shots. I've been on this protocol for 2 weeks now. My estrogen feels high. I have serious water retention. When I take my socks off you can see the marks from the sock in my skin. I never had this before when my estrogen felt normal and when I felt good. My libido isn't great at all but I'm not having ED issues. My joints feel a lot more lubricated than they usually do. My left nipple is pretty puffy but not sensitive. I cannot get any kind of contraction or "pump" in the gym for the life of me and i'm definitely starting to put on fat.

However my crashed estrogen symptoms share some high estrogen symptoms, like low libido and water retention. But my crashed symptoms also contain extreme paranoia and depression, my joints definitely hurt a bit more, and my nipples don't get puffy.

1. I have a prescription for an E2 test via my doctor. Id like to use it tomorrow morning done fasted just to make sure I am not crashed on this protcool. I do NOT know if it's a sensitive test but there's a chance it may be.

2. I also have a full panel from labsmd that I purchased that tests LH FSH E2 sensitive and TT.

3. In addition to this, my doctor prescribed a full panel that contains TT, FT, E2 (non sensitive), DHEA, IGF, LH, FSH, Prolactin, Ferritin, and cortisol. He wants me to get trough levels in early september.


How should get these blood works done so I can figure out what's going on with me? Practically begging for some help here.

 

[CoastWatcher]

What was your previous protocol? Two weeks is nothing, serum levels are still in flux as your body adjusts. You really don't know what is working or not working. When I went from twice weekly to daily, I was out of kilter for over four weeks. Inhat d it and wondered...but hung on. You have to develop perspective. No matter what your tests showed now - at two weeks - I'd not change a single thing. This is the part and parcel of balancing and dialling in.

I know it feels uncomfortable, but if you add/remove/adjust every two weeks, you'll be chasing this prize for months...and you'll be unhappy.

 

[nurselyfe]

Hi thank you for the response. Yes it feels awfully uncomfortable. Every week goes by and I look worse and worse. But I'm so determined to get dialed in because I haven't been in months and I'd do anything to be happy again.

Last two years my protocol was 60mg x2 Test E weekly, not pharmaceutical grade. So it may have not been properly concentrated. No hcg, and 0.2mg anastrazole every 1.5-2 weeks. That kept me feeling incredible, energetic, libido through the roof, and great pumps. Plain and simple this worked for me.

This April-late may, 45mg x2 weekly Watson T Cyp weekly. No Ai. No HCG. I had sky high libido. Was not getting good pumps except in my legs where they were phenomenal. Felt pretty watery all the time. Balls got smaller and really soft. Loads noticeably less dense. At one point in mid may I took 0.5-1mg anastrazole and 1.25mg letrozole within 24 hours of eachother and the next morning woke up feeling super dry and amazing. Felt good for 4 days then was back to watery high E2. (I know this sounds like absolute madness, stay with me here)

June is when things got bad. Started using non pharmaceutical testosterone again. Took AI all over the place, And I crashed for about a month straight due to over all over the place protocol.

Starting in July I was taking 100mg x2 Test E weekly. Pulled a TT of 2300 10 hours post injection, with a E2 Sensitive reading of 89, 12 days no anastrazole.

Mid july I met with my doctor and he said he wanted me trough level at upper range. So we dropped it to 120mg Test Cyp weekly, with .5mg anast weekly, 600IU hcg weekly. Been on this for 2 weeks.

 

[madman]

Hi thank you for the response. Yes it feels awfully uncomfortable. Every week goes by and I look worse and worse. But I'm so determined to get dialed in because I haven't been in months and I'd do anything to be happy again.

Last two years my protocol was 60mg x2 Test E weekly, not pharmaceutical grade. So it may have not been properly concentrated. No hcg, and 0.2mg anastrazole every 1.5-2 weeks. That kept me feeling incredible, energetic, libido through the roof, and great pumps. Plain and simple this worked for me.

This April-late may, 45mg x2 weekly Watson T Cyp weekly. No Ai. No HCG. I had sky high libido. Was not getting good pumps except in my legs where they were phenomenal. Felt pretty watery all the time. Balls got smaller and really soft. Loads noticeably less dense. At one point in mid may I took 0.5-1mg anastrazole and 1.25mg letrozole within 24 hours of eachother and the next morning woke up feeling super dry and amazing. Felt good for 4 days then was back to watery high E2. (I know this sounds like absolute madness, stay with me here)

June is when things got bad. Started using non pharmaceutical testosterone again. Took AI all over the place, And I crashed for about a month straight due to over all over the place protocol.

Starting in July I was taking 100mg x2 Test E weekly. Pulled a TT of 2300 10 hours post injection, with a E2 Sensitive reading of 89, 12 days no anastrazole.

Mid july I met with my doctor and he said he wanted me trough level at upper range. So we dropped it to 120mg Test Cyp weekly, with .5mg anast weekly, 600IU hcg weekly. Been on this for 2 weeks.

I already commented on your last posts which is similar to this. When you were self treating it is somewhat irrelevant as you really have no idea what strength of testosterone you were injecting/week as it may have been under/over dosed so in relation to how you felt when self treating with ai use and than switching to doctor prescribed pharmaceutical grade testosterone with ai/without ai will be difficult to relate to as trying different protocols and switching things up frequently there is no consistency in protocols being implemented.

 

[Vince]

I would skip the AI and keep the rest of your protocol for at least 6 weeks and do labs. Remember do labs on injection day before you inject, I always fast before labs.

 

[nurselyfe]

i'm getting mixed responses here. keep my current protocol or drop the AI. should I at least wait to see what my E2 levels are? I'm going to pull labs right now.

Edit: doctor is in fact pulling E2 sensitive

 

[Vince Carter]

i'm getting mixed responses here. keep my current protocol or drop the AI. should I at least wait to see what my E2 levels are? I'm going to pull labs right now.

Most of us feel you should have never been given an AI to begin with as has been told to you in other threads, but you're on it now so stick it...drop your expectations, If you're going to be day-to-day stuck in your head and on the forum with complaints life is just going to get harder for you.

 

[Vince Carter]

i'm getting mixed responses here. keep my current protocol or drop the AI. should I at least wait to see what my E2 levels are? I'm going to pull labs right now.

Edit: doctor is in fact pulling E2 sensitive

So post the results...I'm not sure what you're not getting here...less talk and more labs would go a long way to worthwhile conversation.

 

[nurselyfe]

I just pulled bloods. I won't have them until the end of the week. So when I have them I will obviously post them. So stick with my current protocol and don't do anything until we see my E2 sensitive results?

 

[nurselyfe]

So post the results...I'm not sure what you're not getting here...less talk and more labs would go a long way to worthwhile conversation.

Why the animosity... Im doing what madman and coastwatcher has said and have been consistent so this isn't a guessing game. But i'm getting conflicting responses saying drop the AI or stay on it as per my protocol. Feel like it's not odd that I'm confused.

 

[lowe2sucks]

some crazy AI doses here no wonder you feel like shit

 

[Vince]

I just pulled bloods. I won't have them until the end of the week. So when I have them I will obviously post them. So stick with my current protocol and don't do anything until we see my E2 sensitive results?

Too short of time on protocol, you at least 6 weeks for your levels to adjust. Remember do Labs on injection day before you inject.

 

[nurselyfe]

Too short of time on protocol, you at least 6 weeks for your levels to adjust. Remember do Labs on injection day before you inject.

Thank you Vince, gotcha, for my next two full panels I will do that.

Basically I just pulled sensitive E2 after only two weeks of this protocol is to make sure I
am not crashed even though I do not feel like I am.

By crashed, I mean <5pg/mL like I had on my June 19th blood work. With that blood work, I felt serious facial bloating, non puffy nips, some joint pain, muscle weakness, nights sweats, fog, low libido, but no ED issues, severe paranoia, depression, anxiety, felt suicidal. And then, if I lay off the AI when I feel crashed, within 5 days, I get a bad migraine headache (never got a migraine before), urinate a lot throughout the night, wake up and feel 10x better, tighter, and more vascular. This good feeling would last for 3 days then i'd feel high E2 symptoms again. Without taking an AI.

 

[nurselyfe]

Alright guys. Got my results in from monday's blood work. It's not what I wanted.

To review my protocol has been 60mg T cyp + 300IU HCG E3.5D, and a .25mg anastrazole day after my shot.

T shot + HCG saturday night.
.25mg adex sunday morning around 11am
bloods @ 7am monday morning fasted, pulled E2=17.2 (8-35), sensitive. Only day I could pull bloods due to clinical schedule.

I know you guys are going to say this number looks pretty good. It does look good but I don't feel like I used to. I know what the sweet spot feels like and it's not like this. I get killer pumps, zero water retention, killer libido, acne, morning wood, and my joints hurt. I don't feel any of this. I have the exact opposite. don't want to chase a number I want to chase how I felt.

On sundayafter I took the anastrazole, anxiety was through the roof. Each day it got a little better. Libido is the same. But physically I look about the same.

Since sunday I haven't taken any anastrazole because I wanted to see what my results were before I did anything. My last T and hcg shot was wednesday. Last night I worked out, left after 3 exercises because I had absolutely no pump or contraction. Today I tried doing shoulders, got a very minor pump on shoulders and a very minor one on biceps. I was definitely more vascular than yesterday. But I still feel bloated and libido is still low.

I also pulled bloods for my TT last night. It's not trough, I did that so I keep consistency with my last TT blood work which was 2285 on 200mg a week, 12 hours post injection. So ill get those results monday.

Really at a loss as to what to do at this point. I'm so confused and upset that this has been going on for 3 months now.

I physically feel the same as when my E2=89 (8-35 sensitive LCMSMS) E2=59.9 (<39 RIA) E2=18 (<39 RIA), but sunday when I took my adex I did have more anxiety than I do today which is almost 6 days later.

When i've crashed bad I have always got a migraine 4 days later and entered the sweet spot for 3-4 days, as long as I ceased the arimidex. Never got a any of that this week.

Any suggestions welxome.

 

[Vince Carter]

Alright guys. Got my results in from monday's blood work. It's not what I wanted.

To review my protocol has been 60mg T cyp + 300IU HCG E3.5D, and a .25mg anastrazole day after my shot.

T shot + HCG saturday night.
.25mg adex sunday morning around 11am
bloods @ 7am monday morning fasted, pulled E2=17.2 (8-35), sensitive. Only day I could pull bloods due to clinical schedule.

I know you guys are going to say this number looks pretty good. It does look good but I don't feel like I used to. I know what the sweet spot feels like and it's not like this. I get killer pumps, zero water retention, killer libido, acne, morning wood, and my joints hurt. I don't feel any of this. I have the exact opposite. don't want to chase a number I want to chase how I felt.

On sundayafter I took the anastrazole, anxiety was through the roof. Each day it got a little better. Libido is the same. But physically I look about the same.

Since sunday I haven't taken any anastrazole because I wanted to see what my results were before I did anything. My last T and hcg shot was wednesday. Last night I worked out, left after 3 exercises because I had absolutely no pump or contraction. Today I tried doing shoulders, got a very minor pump on shoulders and a very minor one on biceps. I was definitely more vascular than yesterday. But I still feel bloated and libido is still low.

I also pulled bloods for my TT last night. It's not trough, I did that so I keep consistency with my last TT blood work which was 2285 on 200mg a week, 12 hours post injection. So ill get those results monday.

Really at a loss as to what to do at this point. I'm so confused and upset that this has been going on for 3 months now.

I physically feel the same as when my E2=89 (8-35 sensitive LCMSMS) E2=59.9 (<39 RIA) E2=18 (<39 RIA), but sunday when I took my adex I did have more anxiety than I do today which is almost 6 days later.

When i've crashed bad I have always got a migraine 4 days later and entered the sweet spot for 3-4 days, as long as I ceased the arimidex. Never got a any of that this week.

Any suggestions welxome.

You get some animosity from me at least because you don't listen. period. You cannot do what you're doing and be on a pathway to success...change this, pull labs here, i feel bad to day so I'm not going to do X Y or Z on days A, B, or C.

I'd be totally comfortable speculating that you're anxiety, diagnosed or not, is and will be your number 1 barrier to move past.

 

[nurselyfe]

You get some animosity from me at least because you don't listen. period. You cannot do what you're doing and be on a pathway to success...change this, pull labs here, i feel bad to day so I'm not going to do X Y or Z on days A, B, or C.

I'd be totally comfortable speculating that you're anxiety, diagnosed or not, is and will be your number 1 barrier to move past.

How do I not listen...? You said post labs so I did. You said don't change my protocol so I haven't. You said be consistent so I have.

 

[johndoesmith]

Most of us feel you should have never been given an AI to begin with as has been told to you in other threads, but you're on it now so stick it...drop your expectations, If you're going to be day-to-day stuck in your head and on the forum with complaints life is just going to get harder for you.

I seriously can't stop laughing at this. I mean, wow.

OP, you're expecting things to happen WAY too quickly. There's a delay between when you make a change and when you feel it's benefits. E2 is a steroid hormone that binds to nuclear receptors. It takes TIME to work.

I agree with Vince Carter that you have some serious anxiety of a non-hormonal etiology.

So many guys attribute all of their issues to hormones, completely disregarding the potential psychological causes, because mental illness carries a stigma in this country.

You are not going to achieve any form of success when you think Estradiol is changing how you feel on a day to day basis.

TRT is like puberty, shit didn't happen overnight.

You feel like crap because your E2 is 17. That's low.

 

[lowe2sucks]

imo you shouldn't take anastrozole if you crashed your e2 on it.. that means its too strong for your e2 or that your e2 wasnt too high to begin with.

 

[nurselyfe]

I seriously can't stop laughing at this. I mean, wow.

OP, you're expecting things to happen WAY too quickly. There's a delay between when you make a change and when you feel it's benefits. E2 is a steroid hormone that binds to nuclear receptors. It takes TIME to work.

I agree with Vince Carter that you have some serious anxiety of a non-hormonal etiology.

So many guys attribute all of their issues to hormones, completely disregarding the potential psychological causes, because mental illness carries a stigma in this country.

You are not going to achieve any form of success when you think Estradiol is changing how you feel on a day to day basis.

TRT is like puberty, shit didn't happen overnight.

You feel like crap because your E2 is 17. That's low.

Prior to these 3 months I never had anxiety and I couldn't be happier how my life has been going.

Im obviously going to have anxiety now if this has lasted 3 months, haven't got a workout in, continually see my body detoriate, and my sex life is suffering slowly. Been on TRT for 3 years and never had an issue.

And it's not even that I feel like crap. I have tons of energy and my mood would be good if I felt like I used to in the gym. I know what being dialed in feels like it's fantastic.

If you think its too low do I lower my adex dose? Drop it? Keep it the same? I've never not needed an AI no matter how low I've went with my T dose. Regardless, I'm keeping my T dose consistent. Im literally asking for help and I have two kind replies from Vince and CoastWatcher. But they say conflicting things.

 

[nurselyfe]

imo you shouldn't take anastrozole if you crashed your e2 on it.. that means its too strong for your e2 or that your e2 wasnt too high to begin with.

Ive never not needed anastrozole. And I dosed my AI on symtomotology. Frowned upon here, but I knew my high E and low E symptoms, it worked for me for 3 years.