Confused about Androgel response

[Wangoz]

First of all what a great resource for information this forum provides, thanks to everyone for contributing!
The purpose of my post is to feel out the group on the program my urologist has me on for TRT...
I was referred to him due to a total testosterone level result of 217, tested for this after talking to my GP about how I had been feeling overall. I have been the poster child for the ADAM questionnaire!
First visit with the urologist, another questionnaire and a prescription for Androgel 1.62%. 1 pump on each shoulder daily. Had a week where I felt great and then bottomed out again. Went a full month and once again he sends me for a blood test and yippee, I'm up to 499! He then wants me to do the test a month later without applying the gel the morning of the test..I just got that test result and back down to 271.
I'm 55, 215 lbs and 5' 11 and no longer workout like I used to but I work 50 hours a week in a physical job. I have no "morning wood", No urges and with serious attention can attain wood for a minute or 2. My moodiness is driving me (and my family) nuts, I feel depressed over nothing, I have a good life and job...Stress is low other than having a Son in the Military far far away..
With all of that said should I be requesting deeper tests or do I simply follow my urologist's game plan? My gut is telling me the Androgel isn't doing the trick but I'm letting him be the expert for now.
I see all of the tests that many of you post results on and it's pretty confusing considering my tests literally gives me one number...and for the most part that number coupled with my overall general feeling of blahness seem to be pointing somewhere, I just don't know where.
Thanks for listening and I look forward to any input..

 

[Vince]

Wangoz, personaly I believe injecting every 3 1/2 is the way to go with TRT. You should look into Defy Medical http://www.defymedical.com/

 

[Nelson Vergel]

From what you are telling me, you are using 40.5 mg per day.



Many men need higher doses or do better on testosterone injections (100-200 mg per week of 50-100 mg twice per week).

A recent study done with Androgel showed a really strange variability in T blood levels:

Large Testosterone Blood Level Variations Found with the Use of Androgel
I guess you are one of those men shown in that study's graph who show wide fluctuations even with daily application.

 

[Wangoz]

That is correct Nelson..

From what you are telling me, you are using 40.5 mg per day.

View attachment 1641

 

[Nelson Vergel]

You could try this but I think you may be better off using 60.75 mg or even 80 mg of Androgel 1.62 (or you could just asked to be switched to injections)

Factors that Can Improve Testosterone Gel Absorption

 

[Wangoz]

Vince, I apologize but I don't understand what I should be injecting 3 1/2 of and how often?

Wangoz, personaly I believe injecting every 3 1/2 is the way to go with TRT. You should look into Defy Medical

 

[Wangoz]

I did read that and am using the lotion Nelson, thank you for that post!

You could try this but I think you may be better off using 60.75 mg or even 80 mg of Androgel 1.62 (or you could just asked to be switched

 

[Nelson Vergel]

He means every 3.5 days. This is what I do:

 

[Wangoz]

So the HCG is obviously beneficial even though I'm not to concerned about my fertlity, it's an overall "booster"?

 

[Nelson Vergel]

Yes, but it is optional and many doctors refuse to prescribe HCG since they think it is only a fertility drug to be used alone.

The Use of HCG to Prevent / Reverse Testicular Shrinkage and Preserve Fertility

 

[ERO]

Yes. Also know that the overall TRT success rate with urologists is low. If it all possible, I would recommend a TRT specialist organization like Defy Medical. Doing TRT with a doc that is not up to speed is, IMHO, as bad or worse than living with untreated Low T. It just doesn't ever end well. Yours just prescribed you half of what you actually need in terms of your topical dosing, for example.

 

[Wangoz]

ERO, That's what I'm learning regarding the dosage my urologist has me working with. I do have an appointment with him Tuesday to discuss my latest lab work, it will be interesting to see where he takes this. I want to feel better and if I'm going to "medicate" I would like it to work!
I have been working with Defy (thanks to this board) and have been set up with Trimix (30-30-1 for the prescription) as I've had NO luck with any of the pills other than a stuffy red face, backache or them simply not working. We did talk about them working with me on a TRT program but pricing couldn't be discussed at that point. My health plan from work is pretty solid so my copay is pretty reasonable for the Androgel.
With that said cost is always a factor so I'm not sure if I want to go all out of pocket just yet...

 

[Vince]

Vince, I apologize but I don't understand what I should be injecting 3 1/2 of and how often?

Wangoz, personaly I believe injecting every 3 1/2 is the way to go with TRT. You should look into Defy Medical

Sorry, I did mean inject very 3 1/2 days like Nelson has stated. I use Nelson's protocol like the video he is showing you.

 

[Vince Carter]

Your Dr isn't wrong in wanting that subsequent test the morning BEFORE you apply your gel. Nothing wrong there and of course its dropped back down though that is a pretty fair swing from day-to-day; 499-271. Reason you felt good for about a week was your body was still producing it's own. Once it stopped, that why you felt crashed. It's a replacement, not a supplement, so now the gel is your ONLY source of T, which is how this works.
I don't get the sidetracked discussion of injections at this point or why that was thrown at you with no discussion of anything to do with your original post.

 

[Vince]

Your Dr isn't wrong in wanting that subsequent test the morning BEFORE you apply your gel. Nothing wrong there and of course its dropped back down though that is a pretty fair swing from day-to-day; 499-271. Reason you felt good for about a week was your body was still producing it's own. Once it stopped, that why you felt crashed. It's a replacement, not a supplement, so now the gel is your ONLY source of T, which is how this works.
I don't get the sidetracked discussion of injections at this point or why that was thrown at you with no discussion of anything to do with your original post.

Vince, the reason I started the discusion on injecting every 3 1/2 days, Wangoz was looking for any input. I'm a big fan of injecting and using Nelson's protocol. I was was just starting the discussion and hoping many would join in, like you did.

 

[ERO]

Even a 499 Total T level is sad and well below the average total T where guys typically begin to "feel" the benefits of TRT, which is usually around 700 Total T, plus or minus a bit. I'd be surprised if anyone really felt good or optimal at that level.

 

[OMI100]

If you have not it done already GET Nelsons book TODAY!!!! That will educate you on TRT.

 

[Wangoz]

I appreciate any and all input at this point, really looking forward to my appointment tomorrow and see what develops with my urologist. After spending a good amount of time reading articles on this forum I feel a bit more prepared and educated to "help myself" if I'm not comfortable with his next plan of attack. I would love to stick with the gel IF we can get it to a volume that actually makes a difference. If not I'm wide open to others methods!

 

[ERO]

Many of us here started on topicals and switched to injections every 3.5 days for a reason - topicals do not work well for the majority of guys that use them. Sure, there are exceptions, buy why fight the odds?

 

[Wangoz]

ERO,
My Uro seems hellbent on getting the Androgel to work before he switches me. I hinted that I wasn't happy with the results both in the numbers and how I feel day to day. Trust me, I'm with you on fighting the odds, not interested. I am sure I'll have a consult with Defy medical but my major concern is that my health insurance covers the gel. If I go outside of my health insurance it will be out of pocket and I have no idea what that cost will be yet.

Many of us here started on topicals and switched to injections every 3.5 days for a reason - topicals do not work well for the majority of guys that use them. Sure, there are exceptions, buy why fight the odds?